Advice - Our teen DS is out of control

[thetroublewithteens]

Apologies in advance for the lengthy post but we are at a loss

DS(17) has been in and out of trouble since primary 7 which escalated as he went through secondary school

Primary school contacted social services without our knowledge due to his behaviour but at the time I was so angry I pushed back on it. Refused their help.

DH & me both work full time, have done since we left school. We also have a DD who is the polar opposite to her brother and she has been around so much in her young life it's heart-breaking.

Fast forward to his first year at academy and things escalated at a terrible rate and any consequences we put in place resulting in him running away and being brought home by the police. We also had a DD at home who is 6 years younger and her life was miserable because of him. He was vile to her, really nasty. He's nasty to everyone really.

DS went into school Friday and told them I'd hit him repeatedly. It was all lies and myself and DH were contacted by CPS and demanded we come home from work to be interviewed. Whilst we were being investigated and because it was a weekend, DS was sent to my DM house to stay. The case was closed and he moved back home however we agreed to help from social work because his behaviour was so out of control. He would lie, steal, involved with drugs from a very young age (our house was searched at one point!)

Now - my DM was our main childcare, both of us work full time although in hindsight I can see I should have probably given up my job but we couldn't survive on one income at the time and I can't change the past so I need to make my peace with the choices we made at the time.

My DM has no boundaries and no consequences, DS knows this and plays her like a fiddle and it did not matter how many times we would say he wasn't allowed out as a consequence or that we were limiting his money because of how it was being spent. She would do what suited her and then lie to us. It was almost like anything for an easy life. She would buy him things that we'd said no to. Things we couldn't necessarily afford. He'd damage them, she'd instantly replace. He is spoilt beyond belief. We would repeatedly tell her she didn't have to agree with our parenting but she did need to respect our choices and sing from the same page but she would not listen. We told her she was giving him a life that was unsustainable and that we could not keep up and in turn he was playing us off one another. At one point social work even told her she is not the parent, we are the parent and she needs to start getting onboard with us.

DS picked up quite quickly that social work would send him to my DM and therefore he'd be allowed to do what he liked so he would go into school on a Friday and make up an accusation knowing he'd get sent to DMs and he could do what he liked. Eventually social work did click onto it after I wrote down every instance and pointed it out to them and then provided evidence he'd been seen out in town drinking and taking drugs.

During COVID, life was better because restrictions meant DS physically couldn't go out and could not go to my DMs house.
Social work closed us down completely because there was other children who needed more support and that was fine. In truth he was great in COVID, a much nicer person to be around. Done well with his school work. Honestly it was like night and day.

Once restrictions lifted and school returned, he was back to his old ways within 6 months. No more social work for us but he was back to skipping school, lying, stealing from us, drugs.. honestly it was horrendous. Every day was a battle but by this point I wfh full time so I am around to keep an eye on him more.

Until he met a girl and all hell broke lose, he's just shy of being 16 at this point - the accusations were back in full force along with everything else. We had an argument with him over his behaviour and he'd stolen more money from us. He shoved me down the stairs so he could get past and run away to the girls house resulting in me being in hospital with a dislocated shoulder. My DM collected him and brought him here to talk to us. We didn't go because he would not have got in the car, it would have escalated further. He point blank refused to stay here saying we were shit parents, I am a c* and a whole host of other insults. He said he would run away to the girls house so my DM said he could live with her because at least we'd know he was safe to a point although I knew (and he knew) that he would not be able to do what he likes with no consequences.

We tried our hardest to maintain contact with DS but he would block our phone numbers and ignore our messages. DM would also go through phases of blocking our number but sometimes she'd speak to us and let us know how we was. Other than that, we'd rely on mutual friends who might have seen him.

2 years down the line and he left school the moment he could, went to college and was put out and not allowed to re-apply for two years. He got a job and was let go because he is unreliable and in the past 6 weeks he's been given another job which he is barely holding onto.

He is no longer with that girl after she fell pregnant and he was vicious to her. We were in contact throughout that time and she miscarried. As cruel as this is, it was for the best because neither her or him were fit to look after a child.

Today I've had a long conversation with DM and the truth of how bad things are has become apparent. She used to make excuses for him but not today.

He's had two bank accounts stopped for fraudulently activity - large transactions that he cannot prove where the money is from or what it is for. We know it's drugs

He is dealing drugs and taking drugs, all under her roof. He has stolen a large quantity of money from her under the guise of booking a holiday which she stupidly transferred to his friend (because he hasn't got a bank account) believing they were paying but has no proof of a booking. She bought him a bike 3 weeks ago for his upcoming 18th and presumes he has sold it because it's missing and has been for a week or so. He demanded driving lessons so we halved in for an intensive course and he didn't turn up on the first two occasions so that was a waste of money. He has stolen jewellery from her house.
He invites his friends round when she is not home and they have her house a mess. When she goes to bed, he has his friends over drinking and taking drugs in her garage.
She has replaced the locks on the garage and house twice and he steals her keys and has copies made!!

Today she has said she is putting him out - neither her or us can see any way forward with him.

This all started when he was 12 years old, he is now almost 18 and things have got worse. He won't listen, has no respect and has a bad temper and can be violent.

I honestly don't see what we can do here to straighten him out. It's a waste of a young life.

Has anyone else experienced this - what can we do? How can we help him?

I’m not saying that his grandmother caused this but that, for this specific child with his personality and tendency to not so much push at boundaries as charge straight over them, the way she behaved exacerbated the situation.

I would write him off. I don't see that there is anything you can do. If he tries to get into your mother's house again she should call the police. Do not allow him to move back in with you for your daughter's sake. You should never have refused the support you were offered when he was younger because who knows what damage he is now going to do to other people.

I don't really know what emotional landscape means but I stand by the fact we were an average family doing average things and we supported and encouraged him in his hobbies and friendships.

He wasn't some abandoned child or a witness to violence or drugs. The life he lives is not what he has experienced growing up.

No we probably shouldn't have - maybe the school could see what was incoming long before we could

I think the call from social services out of the blue was a shock and embarrassing and I felt it was an attack on us. I hadn't foreseen what our son was becoming.

Anyway, less than a year later we had social services and it's done nothing for him

We are going to have to let go which is sad.

This is nonsense. This sounds like a wonderful family set up. One I would have loved but didn’t have. I didn’t go off the rails & I had a very shitty home set up. People are too quick to blame parents of wayward children. Sometimes it’s just who you are as a person, sometimes it’s the people you run with that influence you. There are soooo many variables that make someone who they are, it’s a massive cop out to just say bad parenting. Some kids with the best patents ever turn out shitty (you can see this when one sibling is great, the other is a mess - same parents). Other times you meet amazing kids who have literally been dragged up.

OP I think some people are desperately trying to find something that you did wrong so they can believe that it could never happen to their family. Clearly the inconsistency with your and your DM's approaches didn't help but really the truth is that personality and bad influences and tendencies to addiction could happen in any family.
I agree that protecting your daughter is a huge priority now, and maintaining contact with your lad whilst not conceding to any of his demands feels like all you can do. I really hope he comes out the other side one day like a PP's lovely story with her son.

@thetroublewithteens @Skippydoodle I did not say OP was a bad parent, but that the connection to the child has been lost somewhere along the years.
People can have awful childhoods, but turn out ok. Some have average or materially amazing childhoods and go off the rails. Why? I believe a deep emotional connection to our caregivers guards children to some extent. So that they trust they can share their thoughts and experiences with someone. So that they are not emotionally alone in this world. Obviously you lost this connection with him at some point? It's not your fault, but might be helpful to reflect.
Im You need strong boundaries, but the worst thing would be to just write him off. Don't do that. He's still young.

Where is your husband in all this? You barely mention him; I’d have thought you were going it alone if not for the brief mention at the beginning. Does he have any sort of relationship with your son?

The excuses keep coming from some pp , sexual abuse,Nd ,bad parenting.
He could just be a bad little fucker.if he's getting into to debt with drugs and pressuring gran for the money now hopefully that avenue is closed.
He will fuck up with drug money and the wannabe gangster is going to have consequences to answer to.

Your mother is the biggest problem here. I would have cut her off ages ago.

I’m afraid it is time for some tough love, OP. Do not let him back in, and do not blame yourself for the poor choices he continues to make for himself. He is old enough to know better. If he has no access to you he can’t accuse you of abuse. The best thing you can do right now is to allow him to learn a few hard lessons for himself, without the aid of a safety net. You have raised another child in a similar way and successfully, so your duty of care now lies with her.

It sounds incredibly difficult but I am going to challenge some of things you’re projecting on your DM.

You couldn’t manage so why do you think she could? There’s a lot of blame with “she said/did/didn’t do this or that” and that’s not right. How do you think she felt through all this financially as well as emotionally?

I agree with the PP, if you didn't think DM was 'parenting' properly, you could always have chosen to parent instead. You were not 'setting boundaries' with her, you were trying to lecture and prescribe her into 'parenting' as you wanted her to. When someone isn't looking after your child as you want, you remove them as their carer, not persist in ineffectual nagging.

He's now turned out to be abusing her.

At this point, best thing to do is report him to the Police for drug dealing and financial abuse, and hope that correctional services can sort him out.

Or - offer him a home, have a parent at home at all times, and get serious about getting to know him, family therapy etc. Might be worth a try.

As a child of neglectful parents myself, I can tell you that yes, some children. like your daughter, will adapt to the neglect by being 'seen and not heard'. Others will be delinquent drug addicts. And it seems to me that you and your DH have been more neglectful than my parents.

For most people,the school calling in SS would have been a huge wake-up call. But instead, you chose to 'push back'. Says it all.

Always blame the mother, hey?

Looking back there were always kids who always have to have it Their-way, and even better if it’s also Not-Your-Way.

It isn’t even about the thing it’s about dominance. That’s why he lost it with the pregnant gf, she was going to do something he didn’t want.
You haven’t said how far along she was but presumably someone on her side persuaded her to see sense and have a termination, even though the story was different.

Really, OP there is nothing to be done with this young man. He knows everything already.
I would meet him for a coffee, but stick to facts:
No your sisters aren’t going to live with a drug dealer;
No, you are an adult now and have felt you know better than everyone for several years, I’m sure you’ll be able to house/feed/ educate/drug yourself plus whatever lawyer’s fees you need.
No, you can’t come on Christmas Day while you are actively using drugs.
When you decide you want to behave like we do in our family then you can join in- in the meantime you can’t.

He sounds like a poster boy for psychopathy.

I'm pretty sure that nothing you or your husband did, or didn't do, could have made any positive difference.

It's probably just the way he is wired, and the most likely consequence for him will be a custodial sentence, at some point.

Your mother should tell the police about his assaults on her.

You should tell the police that your son has been violent to you.

His girlfriend also should do so.

Nobody is making sure this young man faces the judicial system, even after a truly horrific catalogue of serious offences.

I'm sorry I haven't come back and replied. I haven't read the most recent replies however things have escalated quite quickly tonight, police are now involved and a warrant out for him as he's done a runner.
He has behaved dreadfully toward my mum, her home is a squalor and she's living in fear.
It ends now. Than you all for taking the time to reply.
It's out of my hands now and the police will catch up with him eventually xx

That's an escalation,hope your mum is ok and hopefully police catch up with him.
Obvious he can't treat people like this and for there not to be consequences.

Sorry to say this but I would leave him to Social Services/Police and not let him back in your home. Prioritise your daughter before he gets deeper into drugs and you have the dealers chasing him for debts on your doorstep.

I really agree with this and everything you said about the emotional landscape- the fact that OP doesn’t even know what that means is quite telling. Sounds like some emotional neglect happening at the very least.

There’s not nearly enough information here to tell whether the DS is a psychopath and merely an anomaly but the way this post was worded reminded me of my abusive mum. I had a very “good” middle class background with lots of holidays, extra cariculars, lovely hosue etc. However severe emotional and psychological abuse were rampant, as well as emotional neglect and occasional physical abuse. Just because they had an okay looking childhood on the outside is meaningless- how did he actually experience his childhood? How did he feel about it all? What was his relationship like with you and his dad, the other adults in his life etc.

Plus, the lack of concern or curiosity about why he changed so much around the age of 12 is odd too. Kids don’t just turn into demons for no reason over night. When I was a younger teen I definitely acted out a ton to deal with the effects of my trauma and got into drugs too well into my early 20s. Perhaps his lack of boundaries has made that process even worse for him.

If DS is an addict then he most definitely suffered some kind of trauma. I would encourage the OP to look into Gabor Mate and his work on addiction. Obviously the violence and stealing are all completely out of line and he needs to be stopped, but I can’t help feel there’s a whole load missing from this story…

You sound oddly detached in your posts, OP.
You son is a vile, abusive monster who has targeted 3 generations of women within his own family.

It's interesting he showed you his best behaviour during Covid. That would suggest he felt comfortable in his own home without the peer group pressure and demands of school.

Probably a bit late to find out now he's 18, but my guess would be that he has an undiagnosed ND disorder - autism, adhd or a mixture of both. And once the social demands of being a teen and high school weighed upon him, he just was not coping and this showed in his behaviour.

The reason i say this is that his behaviour is very similar to my brother's

My brother (if still alive) will be late 50s now. There were a few things with him at primary school age but nothing much until he hit teens.

Unfortunately, our dad worked weeks away at sea and our mum became very ill which meant we had to step up to the plate.

But my brother soon got into a life of trouble, esp as an older teen where he was well known to the police, always had lots of girls around him as he had a Ford Capri that he liked to race about in.

He was 18 when my mum died and totally went off the rails and has done a lot of homeless periods in his life.

But he absolutely has his own agenda, knows the last letter of the law and will argue ferociously with any authority figure. I strongly suspect he has the PDA form of autism and just totally kicked off as demands on him escalated.
Finally, he just opted out of society altogether. But, undiagnosed, we will never know.

Unfortunately, once they get to adulthood, you just need to let them go. My dad did try with my brother - even getting him a good-paying job at sea. But it did not last long. He just is unable to fit into society's rules.

I very much hope your lad doesn't go the same way as my brother. But i think you might need to let him go. For the sake of your own sanity.

I think at this point you and your mum just have to let go, he's made his choice and there's consequences
Hopefully he will sort himself out but he's going to have to take responsibility for his own actions, there's only so much you can do

To clarify, DS has not lived in our home with DD for the past two years and won't be returning here either. See earlier posts.

DM has put him out and called the homeless charities on his behalf however they insist on speaking to him and he won't call them. She has washed and ironed all his clothes for him and packed them neatly for him to collect from her doorstep but she's known he was going to react because she called a locksmith to change all locks in the house much earlier today. The locksmith took hours to come.

Unfortunately DS has returned to her home prior to the locksmith, let himself in with a key and been physical and abusive to DM and caused substantial damage to her property.

Yes, we are detached because we have tried collectively as a family to help him and to seek help from outside including social services and police and he was offered counselling and therapy. He refuses to engage with anyone or any help and has continually behaved appalling
DM couldn't see it, even though it was all Infront of her eyes. Her friends told her, we told her, social work told her, the police. She simply does not want to believe this is who her grandson has become.

Whereas we have watched this unfold for years, he has made me ill at times and question our own sanity but we had to find a balance for DD. To continue earning and living life with DD whilst the chaos was ongoing.

If anyone here has the secret to resolving this then please do share your knowledge because honestly, we believe we have tried everything.

He has been brought up in a normal, stable and loving environment by parents and wider family who love him very much. We have supported and encouraged him in his hobbies, at school, in friendships. We have done our best to raise him with the knowledge we have. There is no emotional or mental or physical abuse from us as parents or his extended family.

If anything has happened as suggested in previous posts then we can't help unless he opens up to us or someone. We can't fix what we don't know about.

We (his parents) phoned the police because DM still wouldn't do it and the locksmith has now been

There is a warrant out for his arrest. Police has taken away all drug paraphernalia found within DMs property which confirm he is not only taking drugs but also dealing at a certain level. Statements have been provided regarding his behaviour towards DM and evidence of the financial abuse.

I hope she is strong enough now to let him go because until he wants the help we can't force him. He is continuing to make terrible choices which come with terrible consequences

If you disagreed with everything your mum did and said with regard to him, why did you use her as full time childcare?

Please tell me what you believe emotional neglect is or what emotional neglect you faced and I'll compare scenarios

We were there every morning before school, we made sure the DC were dressed and ready to go.
We were home for dinner, we ate as a family. Either one or both of us sometimes with DD in tow attended every single football practice and never missed a game. Every tournament . We attended every parent's evening together and every phonecall from school either one or both of us left work to come home and deal with it. We spent our days off doing family things that everyone enjoyed although football in the morning was common.
DH and me had one overnight away per year to go Christmas shopping.
There was no emotional, physical or mental abuse.
We had boundaries and consequences which unfortunately he didn't like and repeatedly pushed back on. Skipping school is not acceptable, stealing is not acceptable, lying is not acceptable, bringing drugs into our home is not acceptable.
He'd do obscure things, like take my phone when I wasn't looking and block the school phone number so they couldn't contact me.

He's clever, always thinking outside the box on new ways not to get caught doing things he knew were wrong.

I honestly cannot fathom out how a wee boy, who's had a good life has turned out the way he has.

Obviously it's late and my mind is doing overtime