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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think we should all boycott John Lewis until they respect their female employees

842 replies

Lovelyview · 29/08/2024 17:26

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/resignation-letter-from-a-john-lewis

This is a letter from a female employee of John Lewis's Cheadle branch. John Lewis told its female employees that they have to share toilets and locker rooms with trans identifying men. The employee says this is having a terrible effect especially on colleagues who have experienced trauma relating to men or who have religious reasons to not want to share a space with someone who is the opposite sex.

Resignation letter from a John Lewis Partner

The John Lewis Partnership is abusing its female staff and customers

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/resignation-letter-from-a-john-lewis

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
HollyKnight · 29/08/2024 18:58

Toilette...why?

YourWinter · 29/08/2024 18:58

I worked part time at Waitrose for a few years before I retired. A man who usually worked on bakery started coming to work wearing a uniform skirt and tights, and blue eye shadow, and a female name. I think his shirt was the male version and he wore a white vest under it. In a skirt, he used the female locker room and toilets. I didn’t hear of any formal announcement about it but when I, a fairly new and insignificant part-timer, grumbled to my team leader he smiled and said, we have to just let it go.

Lots of girls came straight from the local 6th form college to change into uniform for an evening shift. They absolutely should not have had to change in a toilet cubicle just because a man wearing a skirt was touching up his mascara in the locker area.

They’re disgusting employers and I’m glad to be out of it.

FOJN · 29/08/2024 18:58

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/08/2024 18:37

There's an AGP in our local John Lewis (he works in the women's department and is very vocal about it) and I stopped using them once I realised that the James Esses account of their ideological capture wasn't just in one store, or one part of the company:

x.com/jamesesses/status/1758061754804748489?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

AGP for those unfamiliar:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4726257-nick-timothy-in-the-telegraph-on-the-grr?page=1

This letter does not surprise me. Women deserve much better than this. We certainly don't deserve to be treated with contempt by our employers or as customers.

Didn't M&S have a transwomen working in the women's underwear department a few years ago. Iirc it came to light when a women took her teenage daughter for her first bra fitting.

I wonder how many posters would remain unbothered/committed to inclusivity under those conditions.

If a man is woman enough for the ladies loo or changing room then why not as a bra fitter?

Livinginaclock · 29/08/2024 18:59

Already boycotting

Lovelyview · 29/08/2024 19:00

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 29/08/2024 19:00

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 29/08/2024 18:56

But most shops don’t guarantee gender specific toilets. They put signs on saying who they are for but the don’t police it and check people going in and out. What do you expect them to do have a bodyguard on the door.

Rubbish, in the past a man in the women's could be reported, removed and sometimes the police called if he was exposing his penis (as in wii spa). Other men and women would call the man out / stop him. If a toilet is labeled women's that is stating it's for biological women only in most people's minds

The children attacked by Dolatowski probably wouldn't have used those toilets and their parents not let them go in alone had the toilets been labeled mixed sex.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 29/08/2024 19:02

LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 29/08/2024 18:51

To be fair the op actually said locker room. That to me is different to a changing room and not something I would expect to be single sex . At my work the lockers are just in communal places on the open plan floor. It maybe I have misunderstood what a locker room is

My work’s changing room has lockers in it. To be focussed on this exact wording of this space and not the discomfort of the women is off to me. It’s clear the women don’t want men in this space no matter what you want to call it.

Lovelyview · 29/08/2024 19:03

YourWinter · 29/08/2024 18:58

I worked part time at Waitrose for a few years before I retired. A man who usually worked on bakery started coming to work wearing a uniform skirt and tights, and blue eye shadow, and a female name. I think his shirt was the male version and he wore a white vest under it. In a skirt, he used the female locker room and toilets. I didn’t hear of any formal announcement about it but when I, a fairly new and insignificant part-timer, grumbled to my team leader he smiled and said, we have to just let it go.

Lots of girls came straight from the local 6th form college to change into uniform for an evening shift. They absolutely should not have had to change in a toilet cubicle just because a man wearing a skirt was touching up his mascara in the locker area.

They’re disgusting employers and I’m glad to be out of it.

Edited

That's shocking 😳

OP posts:
dol1 · 29/08/2024 19:06

I absolutely love John Lewis.

Having read this letter, I sadly won’t shop there again until they rectify this.

When will men leave us alone?

Nomorewindchimes · 29/08/2024 19:08

All the women on here who don't care "it won't happen to me" lot. It will happen to you. You will find a man pretending to be a woman in your women's only space. When you do, just remember how disconnected you were about it at this time.

Lovelyview · 29/08/2024 19:11

HollyKnight · 29/08/2024 18:58

Toilette...why?

I wondered that! Unique spelling.

OP posts:
BiggerBoat1 · 29/08/2024 19:13

Nomorewindchimes · 29/08/2024 19:08

All the women on here who don't care "it won't happen to me" lot. It will happen to you. You will find a man pretending to be a woman in your women's only space. When you do, just remember how disconnected you were about it at this time.

Not caring is not the same as thinking it won’t happen in my workspace. It can happen where I work and that’s fine. I am happy to share space with trans women as I do not consider them to be “men pretending to be women”.

mrstrickland · 29/08/2024 19:13

You might want to boycott the NHS as well then 😂

Mummyoflittledragon · 29/08/2024 19:14

Brilliant letter. So eloquently put. Unfortunately I don’t think it will make a darned bit of difference. There were a few boycott threads with a bunch of us writing in to M&S about 4 years ago. Management ignored our concerns.

violetsparkle · 29/08/2024 19:15

WomensRightsRenegade · 29/08/2024 18:23

In which case they shouldn’t be shafting their main customer base - by pandering to those with shafts.

How utterly miserable that so many WOMEN on Mumsnet who would be self-flagellating with barbed wire if John Lewis were discriminating against black people have no issue with this grotesque discrimination against women and girls.

Misogyny really is the oldest and deepest hatred.

I haven't said if I do or don't have a problem

lightinthebox · 29/08/2024 19:15

I work for JL and trust me, this is not the issue you think it is. We have male janitors in the changing rooms and no one cares. Stop assuming what colleagues are thinking with no knowledge.

Nanny0gg · 29/08/2024 19:18

IDontHateRainbows · 29/08/2024 17:51

What, like guide dogs for the blind or other disabilities?

No

That's a legal(and moral) requirement

All dogs

battymaggot · 29/08/2024 19:19

JL are a busted flush. The default response to any instore enquiry serms to be 'look online'
I'm going to write to JL about this FWIW. Perhaps (not hopeful) a bit of a pile-on may show them that this issue is, at least, a talking point.
Otherwise I'm so fed up of the drivel coming from the transmaidens here.
What is it that drives this treachery towards their own sex?
Is it that piss-warm feeling of being on the side right of the inclusive line?
Or are they just drunk on the trans woo woo?

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 29/08/2024 19:19

BiggerBoat1 · 29/08/2024 19:13

Not caring is not the same as thinking it won’t happen in my workspace. It can happen where I work and that’s fine. I am happy to share space with trans women as I do not consider them to be “men pretending to be women”.

Good for you. You don’t get to decide other women have to share their spaces with men though. That’s not a right you get to give away. It’s also the very definition of a trans woman. A man who thinks he’s a woman. He has to pretend as he won’t and never will be one.

Hopefully these spaces you’re happy to share won’t include someone like Katie Dolatowski. You may find yourself revising your position.

Lovelyview · 29/08/2024 19:19

BiggerBoat1 · 29/08/2024 19:13

Not caring is not the same as thinking it won’t happen in my workspace. It can happen where I work and that’s fine. I am happy to share space with trans women as I do not consider them to be “men pretending to be women”.

What about women who don't see 'trans women' as women. You seem to be happy to give away women's rights to single sex spaces even though many women do not consent. You are happy to over-ride consent because of your belief that somehow a man can change his sex even though a large number of women do not share your belief.

OP posts:
Fancycheese · 29/08/2024 19:21

Christ. If MN boycott John Lewis it’ll be on the ropes within the week.

Fancycheese · 29/08/2024 19:24

Nomorewindchimes · 29/08/2024 19:08

All the women on here who don't care "it won't happen to me" lot. It will happen to you. You will find a man pretending to be a woman in your women's only space. When you do, just remember how disconnected you were about it at this time.

You are aware that 99.9% of men do not need to go through the pretence of lying about their gender identity in order to attack women? They just do it. Honestly you would think that hoards of women were being attacked on a daily basis by men falsely identifying as women. A far, far bigger issue is violence perpetuated by men identifying as men. Why is there not the same uproar there?

ResisterOfTwaddleRex · 29/08/2024 19:25

battymaggot · 29/08/2024 19:19

JL are a busted flush. The default response to any instore enquiry serms to be 'look online'
I'm going to write to JL about this FWIW. Perhaps (not hopeful) a bit of a pile-on may show them that this issue is, at least, a talking point.
Otherwise I'm so fed up of the drivel coming from the transmaidens here.
What is it that drives this treachery towards their own sex?
Is it that piss-warm feeling of being on the side right of the inclusive line?
Or are they just drunk on the trans woo woo?

Agree.

I think internalised misogyny is a problem. It's helping men demolish all boundaries

Lovelyview · 29/08/2024 19:26

Fancycheese · 29/08/2024 19:24

You are aware that 99.9% of men do not need to go through the pretence of lying about their gender identity in order to attack women? They just do it. Honestly you would think that hoards of women were being attacked on a daily basis by men falsely identifying as women. A far, far bigger issue is violence perpetuated by men identifying as men. Why is there not the same uproar there?

Do you think women don't have the right to single sex spaces?

OP posts:
KendraTheVampyrSlayer · 29/08/2024 19:28

saraclara · 29/08/2024 17:29

No. This is their employees' issue (and their unions?) to fight.

Do you use the changing rooms or toilets in John Lewis? Are you happy to undress in front of strange men? Some women aren't.