To think we should all boycott John Lewis until they respect their female employees

[Lovelyview]

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/resignation-letter-from-a-john-lewis

This is a letter from a female employee of John Lewis's Cheadle branch. John Lewis told its female employees that they have to share toilets and locker rooms with trans identifying men. The employee says this is having a terrible effect especially on colleagues who have experienced trauma relating to men or who have religious reasons to not want to share a space with someone who is the opposite sex.

Me too OP.

Why is the bar set at being attacked?

I don’t want to be in certain spaces in the presence of a penised male. The end. I don’t need a reason why. No matter what their intentions are. My brother and lovely male friends would never hurt anyone (as far as I know). Would I want them to be in any spaces for women if they woke up tomorrow with different gender feels despite being sure their intentions were not nefarious in any way? No. Because their presence may be problematic to some women, for a myriad of reasons.

Why is this such a difficult concept to grasp?

Ah yes, the predictable ad hominem attacks on other women who have different opinions than you do. Luckily in this country and in this century we’re able to hold and express different views. Why does it need to get so personal?

I'm pleased for you that you won't be affected but you don't get to consent on my behalf or anyone else's and until ALL women consent to a man in their safe space, he shouldn't be there.

And they are men. I can put on mens clothes, grow a beard and call myself Steve, it doesn't make me a man. Sex is biological and cannot be changed. Not by hormones, not by surgery. That is just taking financial advantage of people with a mental illness by making them think if they can just change their body then their life will be better and they will be happy. Its abhorrent. A failure in their duty of care to vulnerable people. And it doesn't work. The sheer number of detransitioners speaks to that.

This debate is something that I struggle with.

I see both sides. Some women feel uncomfortable and it's against their beliefs.

However it's a dilemma. Where are trans women meant to go? There are no winners here.

I also find it difficult to believe that men would dress as women for work, in order to hear a woman pee in a stall next to them.

I also personally, struggle to be upset by a trans person sharing those spaces. I am in a locked stall to pee. I am not worried about a trans persons gaze. Just because they are trans, does not make them a sexual predator, in the same was as being a lesbian does not make a woman a sexual predator.

JL have offered alternatives for women who feel uncomfortable.

I agree the situation is not ideal but I won't be boycotting JL. Their Union need to step in if partners are unhappy.

Also......dogs. Don't mind this at all! I'm an advocate of socialised pets. Again, get it that some don't like it.

But a man (even saying that they identify as a woman) will get removed if caught if they are waving their penis around in a communal part of the toilet. The question is whether they would get caught. that is not. That’s not normal behaviour in a women’s toilet.

Imagine if the suffragettes had said this about the vote! It's to not be bothered when other women fight for all those rights for you and you just reap the benefits, isn't it?

No - normal dogs. I saw one in Liverpool this week. Just sniffing around the goods with its owners completely oblivious to what it was doing. I asked at the till and was told that dogs are allowed in. So I’d advise anyone still wishing to shop there to check your purchases very carefully before you go home with clothing that a dog has slobbered on.

I’m about to email in to complain about the issue in the op - but will no doubt get fobbed off, just as I did by M&S.

You don’t want to a space with “penised males”, well what about if they’ve had surgery? Is that ok? Somehow I doubt it.

And you don’t want to be in the presence of any men in spaces for women because “their presence may be problematic to some women”. So this is solely an altruistic endeavour to help “some” (undefined) women.

It’s difficult to grasp because I cannot get my head around the uproar it causes when there is genuine harm being done to women. This is a bogey monster under the bed that receives outsized attention on here. I don’t understand it, you all seem to work each other up into a state of apoplexy.

It’s completely pointless posting in these threads full of pitchforks. However I do wonder if any of you have ever actually met or interacted with a person suffering from gender dysphoria. There’s so much ignorance and hatred on display.

That's a generalisation. Having been a victim of sexual violence it did happen to me however, I see the struggles of trans people and don't automatically believe them to be sexual predators. Sexual violence existed when trans people were not accommodated for. JL need to offer suitable alternatives for women who show discomfort. I'm not about further alienating trans women.

Where men who have a gender dysphoria (or otherwise) have to go isn't a problem for women to solve. Personally I think they should go into spaces that align with their sex. If that's a problem then take it up with the men, make them more understanding and accommodating. Argue for a third space. You don't encroach on spaces not for you.

Where they shouldn't go is the women's.

Sense at last!

I don’t find it at all difficult to believe that some men go to great lengths to harass and intimidate women - and to basically take everything from them that should belong only to women.

The solution is simple - third spaces. The arrangement should be made for transwomen. The onus should not be on biological women who do not wish to share changing rooms with male-bodied persons to either put up with it or be told to use a tiny space further away and lacking proper facilities.

Do you have a list?

I've worked for JL/Waitrose for 10 years now. They have been a fantastic, fair & supportive employer. I've got a significant disability & the company has gone above & beyond to be supportive.

I don't work at that branch but where I work we have negotiated a solution that works for everyone regarding Trans debate. No one is forced to share with someone of opposite sex. I would have thought the company will be working to find a solution for the partners at Cheadle in the same way.

By all means if you don't want to shop at JL/Waitrose then don't but it would be crazy to do that based on 1 sensationalized story when overall the company is far better for workers rights & supports people through illness, disability, pregnancy, maternity etc far better than other retailers and certainly better than tesco, sainsburys, lidl & worse still Amazon, temu, shein that will dump any minimum wages employee if they are anything less than 100% productive.

I’m cancelling everything I’ve got with them; that’s appalling. To the women on here who don’t care, I say wait until your daughters, sisters, mothers are caught up in the carnage.

This is interesting to hear.

What's the solution and how are they defining "sex" as part of it? Also what's the definition of "trans" in your policy?

Ok, males whether their penises remain intact or not. They are still males.

Yes, there are women who have experienced male trauma or women who don’t want to be in changing rooms (to give an example) for religious reasons. Or people like me, who just don’t want to. Why do trans women’s feelings trump this?

I don’t want males in spaces they shouldn’t be. I don’t care how they identify. Opening up single sex spaces to include those with gender dysphoria dismantles safeguarding measures put in place in the first place.

The naivety is wild.

@AccidentallyWesAnderson and that's where we disagree. I do see them as women.

Happy to disagree. I know it's an emotive subject.

I read it. It all boils down to “exclude trans women from women’s loos,” without straightforwardly coming out and saying it.

It is perfectly acceptable and legal to exclude all transwomen whether they hold a GRC or not from female changing rooms and toilets, you know this, Kier Starmer even confirmed this when asked. The safety, privacy and dignity of women and girls is a reasonable and legitimate aim.

What do you consider them to be?

You see Isla Bryson, Karen White and Katie Dolatowski (to name a few) as women?

John Lewis is my favourite shop. In fact, it’s pretty much the only shop I go to in person nowadays. AND I can take my dog.

So, no.

JL need to offer suitable alternatives for women who show discomfort. I'm not about further alienating trans women.

NO, suitable alternatives should be provided for transwomen. Women should not be inconvenienced or forced to relinquish their space.

What about biological women who now identify as male and look male. Do you want them using the women’s toilet. Will seeing them in the toilets make women feel uncomfortable?

its really difficult to solve.