To ask if anyone else on MN is not anti-trans?

[Lilieee]

I'm not interested in someone 'debunking the trans agenda' or how no one on here is like that, all I'm interested in is if any pro-trans Mumsnetters could pop up so I don't feel alone

Bad faith

I mean, I would feel the same as if someone protested to getting changed around a lesbian. They shouldn't be "forced" to do it, but neither should their bigotry mean that lesbian women are excluded from female changing areas, to protect from homophobes feeling uncomfortable.

The anti trans mob on here just can't help themselves, can they?
We weren't even halfway through the first page before they had to spout their venom.
And look at the votes, says it all.

Utterly pathetic people.

I'm the mother to a trans son and I actually left Mumsnet quite a few months ago due to the transphobic comments being made and Mumsnet's habit of getting rid of pro trans comments but letting the Transphobic ones stick around, which said a lot to me about what sort of site this is.

I will always be a Trans Ally, and an ally to LGBTQ in general.
And yes I am a CIS woman, and I will use that term more and more if I know it pisses the transphobes off 💁🏼‍♀️

Will likely delete my account again once I've said my piece, and won't respond to replies, so knock yourselves out.
This place is a cesspit.

I'm not anti-trans. That doesn't mean I'm happy to accept everything without question.

There is a child at my kids' school who was rebranded as a girl when he was 5, just after finishing reception, and I think it's abuse. I'm sure his parents think they are doing what is best for him, but actually they are fucking up his life and it should be illegal.

For everyone's clarity, something like 95% of 'transwomen' have fully intact genitalia

I don't believe in them

Same page as you OP.

So much on here is ill-informed prejudiced nonsense.

One way of debunking it is to think about transmen and how they should be treated.

We weren't even halfway through the first page before they had to spout their venom.

What do you think is 'venom' on this thread?

Men and women (who don't have/feel the need to preface themselves as anything else) will always make up the majority. It must be hard to feel so inherently different to the majority, and therein lies the root of the resentment.

In terms of the trans debate in general, honestly, I don't care. And I believe the majority don't care either.

I think at the root of this 'debate' is the simple, but unavoidable, truth that it's incredibly difficult for a man to make a convincing looking woman. The aforementioned majority of us can be inclusive and tolerant, however it's still going to be the first thing we notice.

What @MissScarletInTheBallroom said.

Yes indeed, a lot of trans people are autistic. Do you think this is some sort of "gotcha!"? Autistic people are often uncomfortable with performing a gender that they are not. Fucking good for them! Long live trans culture.

They’re lesbians and it’s called a strapless, didn’t you know? Also known as a lady tinkler.

Also, a gem I read in a newspaper, “Some of the best women I know have penises’.

This is ridiculous

We have single sex spaces to protect women. Why do you think this man has the right to violate them?

We have never had single 'sexual orientation' spaces because women are not at any significant risk from other women who have a different sexual orientation to them.

Please add me to the list of allys. I am shocked at the anti trans threads on here. I work with 16-21 year old young people many of whom are trans. They suffer enough without the uneducated crap I read on MN.

It's different because females don't commit the huge majority of sex offences or dominate most sports, so female trans people don't pose the same risks to men as male trans people do to women.

Quite. The only venom I see on this site is genuinely about men (who don't think they're women) and chest beating screams of leave the bastard for very little.

Women in here tell other women to leave their DH or DP for so little and they're convinced all men are out to get them or manipulate their children in divorce or be Disney dad's or my favourite - narcissists.

Unless. UNLESS that man happens to put on a dress and say he's a woman. Well shucks. What an angel he must be. Enter with impunity our safe spaces, do what you want, we know we're safe just because you say you're woman even though you're not

Listen to yourselves.

I’m sorry to hear of your experience.

And it’s exactly this. This is exactly why safeguarding cannot make exemptions.

Making exemptions is saying ‘we are allowing some women to be abused as acceptable collateral damage to benefit this group of male sexed people’

That position is clearly an anti-human rights position with regard to women. And it’s clearly deeply misogynistic and can be placed within millennia of history of women being structurally disadvantaged to benefit men.

This debate is not about trans people. It’s about men and the danger and disadvantage women are exposed to when you make exemptions for some males.

It's about womens rights. Not trans people, @lifesrichpageant . Perhaps if transwomen didn't give RAPE THREATS and death threats to women desperately fighting for our sex-based rights, threaten to bash us with bats, that we shoud die in a grease fire, fracturing the sockets of 72 year old elderly women (in Auckland, NZ, who only went to a feminist rally to see what it was about), advocating 'punch a terf in the face', 'stab a terf', etc, it wouldn't be like this.

Did you ever consider for a moment, why there is such a pushback? Even for seconds? Men are taking bags with knives to womens rights rallies, threatening (on twitter) to burn the women (or burn the witches) inside a building (police were tagged as the accounts went private), etc etc. This is a dangerously palpable and visceral mens rights movement with that testosterone-fueled violence that is threatening women. For NO other reason, than wanting human rights and to be safe. Maybe if these male (and they're 99% all male, that are making these threats and going around punching and bashing up women) trans activists weren't being thugs and bullies threatening to harm women, they wouldn't have fallen out of favour with women who until then, had a live and let live philosophy. Maybe you should consider that the actions of these men are what is causing people to turn against them and be anti-trans.

Glad to hear you don’t think they should be forced to. Any suggestions as to where should they change to avoid undressing in front a male? Do you think a reasonable accommodation would be a third gender neutral space for anyone, like you, who doesn’t mind undressing with the opposite sex?

Trans men? They should be 'treated' like any other woman. Because that's what they are. I can see what you're doing! You think those of us who are anti-trans are only against the 'trans women' and would to point us out as being misandrists but no, I don't believe women can become men either and we shouldn't pander to this fairytale that they are anything else.

I’m pro woman.
I don’t care how people wish to present themselves, everyone should live however they feel happiest, as long as it’s not hurting anyone else.
The gender agenda hurts women and children. Women by taking away single sex rights (if you can’t define woman it’s meaningless) and by hurting vulnerable children (pretty much all trans teens are autistic, abused, and/or mentally ill. This is a group that needs help for sure, but they should not be making life changing decisions when they are very likely to grow into themselves as adults, without the need for hormones or surgery which can shorten lifespan and introduce all sorts of physical problems.

Apparently though we live in an age where common sense is bigoted.

I don’t hate trans people but I do hate this.

I am not a ‘cis’ woman, I am a woman. I was born a woman and remain a woman.

I'm not "pro" trans, but I'm not anti-trans, and certainly not as "burn them at the stake" as the majority of Mumsnet are.

On paper, in theory, I'm not keen on the idea. It doesn't sit well with me. HOWEVER, I'm human and I can't help liking other humans. Whether it's thinking God didn't design it that way, or it's not how nature intended, my opinion of "it's not something I agree with" just disappears when I've got to know people as humans, and see them as a person with feelings and needs and emotions, not just whether they're male or female.

I have a friend I know professionally, who works in a very male dominated manual industrial job. They transitioned to female successfully (by that I mean mentally and physically) and while on occasion they look masculine (usually after a bad night shift and lack of sleep and fresh make up!)(mind you, I'd also look rough after the same shift!) I can't help but automatically think of them as female. We've discussed nails, manicures, me asking where they bought clothes I like, etc and they've also confided in me that they were going for vocal training. I asked about it later and they'd stopped because it felt too fake, and they thought they sounded silly almost speaking in a faked falsetto voice. I have utmost respect for this person. Because after however long, to go into your gritty, traditional mens workplace and announce you're now a woman, that takes absolute guts and isn't something that someone would do unless they were ded serious about it. I certainly couldn't do that. Me to expect Dave and Frank who've worked their since the 70s who I've laughed about tits and women I've pulled to suddenly treat me as the complete opposite to what they've known me as for 20 years, jeez I couldn't do that on a whim. This persons Father, in his late 80s, completely old school, is fully accepting of them. I'm sure he would have had struggled to accept his son's decision to transition, so he must have known they were absolutely serious and it wasn't a fad or a phase or poorly made decision. This persons colleagues and family accept them and they know them far better than I do. They've seen utmost seriousness and determination in this person that they're female.

I just come back to thinking that if I woke up one morning, looked down and there was a penis just there attached to me I'd be very freaked out and very "that's not right, that doesn't belong". And that's how this person felt before their change. They woke up each morning uncomfortable and distressed that their outer body didn't match what they felt inside and what they classed themselves as. They looked at females and thought "But that what I should look like. I should be like that. With boobs, not this ridiculous penis thinking dangling off me". So when it comes down to it if they're happy and insisting that they now get up each morning, owning a pair of boobs and vagina, feeling exactly the same as I do every morning, then who am I to argue? They feel right in their own skin when they previously didn't. They're happy, successful, friendly, care about their family and colleagues..... Why on earth should I get a say on what they have between their legs or write on the personal details bit of a form? 🤷🏻‍♀️

Having said that, the thing about knobhead perverts deciding they're now female just so they can serve a prison sentence in a female jail is very very wrong and needs stopping. Don't ask me how, I don't know how or where you decide. I just worry that a person I admire greatly gets swept, alongside the criminally perverse, into the big "trans shouldn't be a thing" net. It's not fair that pervy nutjobs would stop this lovely person being true to themselves. ☹️

We're not. We're interested in trans women's safety. Trans women are not men, you transphobe.

@MeanGreen you said it perfectly.