Don't vote reform

[Crispynoodle]

Obviously I can't tell you who to vote for but then there is this:

news.sky.com/story/second-reform-candidate-quits-and-backs-tories-over-racism-and-misogyny-13162247

@Shortfatsuit fair enough! It’s what happened with Brexit though!

I think think we’ll end up with a conservative reform coalition

There's a lot of truth in this. If instead of deriding and insulting people who voted for Reform/ Trump/ Le Pen we actually did the work of understanding why people were voting for them and addressing those issues, we might build a more cohesive society.

But doing that requires work and grit and calling people names is easy and superficially satisfying, so why not just keep on doing that, eh @Shortfatsuit?

It is.

Highly suspicious. Can't find anything on her previous political background.
2 in 2 days.
Vast majority of Reform are racist she says.
I'd be most interested to see how many candidates she has actually met.
An actor last week placed undercover to be filmed being racist.....
Whoever is behind these sabotages is terrified of how popular Reform is becoming.

I have enough faith in the British people to believe that the vast majority will never stoop that low. Maybe I'm wrong and they would, but I don't think so.

Of course, dear.

And Starmer is a women hating cretin.

Bit stuffed aren't we? I care more about women than foxes.

Reform, who were UKIP, who were BNP. Different names same people who dont actually have anything to give the country in a realistic sense. Years of riling people up with the same rehashed immigration lines. Farage got his win with Brexit, any other far righter with little real political prowess would have taken that and ran. But Farage seems to genuinely think he’s some sort of Boris character who can keep in the public favour with this persona he’s created. It’s tiresome and a waste of a vote (in my opinion of course). Anytime any of their previous iterations got a seat, they had a grand lot of nothing to add.

They bloody should be. As a French citizen, I am appalled that we celebrated the D-day landings and the liberation of France, not long ago, to have now fascists on the brink of power.
People are morons/ uneducated idiots.

I do plenty of work in RL with people in the disadvantaged communities that are typically targeted by Reform. I understand the difficulties that people are facing but Reform is not the solution to any of them - far from it. Most decent people are quite capable of recognising this, no matter how much they are struggling.

The issue is that the racist people who choose to vote for parties like Reform rarely want to engage in an actual debate about whether Reform policies would actually make their lives any better. I've given up. I just can't be arsed to argue with them any more.

Reform, who were UKIP, who were BNP

I am no fan of UKIP, or Reform, but this is simply not true. BNP attracted a much different and much more narrow demographic than UKIP, and had quite different political ends.

Entirely agree with this.

If you think like this then I am quite taken aback that you think calling people racist is the solution. Or at least think it is a neutral act, rather than one that achieves the opposite end to the one you claim to want.

The fact that you want to 'debate' with people, rather than listen to their reasons, says it all. You have already decided they need to be corrected by you, Reform is not the issue. The issues in people's lives are. You are focusing on the wrong area.

I’m using them as an example of ‘that party’ in every general election, whatever their policies they’re always aimed towards the far right and hardline immigration soundbites which (whatever people’s reasoning to agreeing with them) are usually unworkable. They’re always the party for the angry person who feels utterly demoralised by centrist politics (and not always wrong to feel this way).

Quite. It’s complete desperation and hysteria.

@Shortfatsuit the arrogance! I’ll be sure to tell my black/Asian family and friends they’re all racist bigots because we’re all voting Reform tomorrow.

I don't understand how someone can sign up to represent Reform and NOT already know the party is full of of nasty people. My mind boggles. I actually worry it's all part of some kind of Farage plan to take over the Conservatives or something! I think he's dangerous and shouldn't be let anywhere near government.

There is truth in this. I hope that Labour get in and that part of what they then do involves listening to people and figuring out how to address some of the issues that have left so many feeling angry and unheard.

I can see why Reform is appealing to some, but urge everyone to look closely at their manifesto and not just go on sound bites. How are they planning to "motivate up to 2 million people back to work" for example?

I'd bet the actual consequences of their various ideas would be terrible for a lot of the people they are trying to appeal to. And the outcomes for ethnic minorities, women, job seekers, disabled people, gay people and anyone vulnerable could be dire.

There is no smoke without fire.

Yes, the issues in people's lives are the thing to focus on. I invest a lot of time and work in this.

Over the years, I have listened to lots of people saying why they vote for far right parties. It is very clear that they are generally motivated by racism and xenophobia. Few will openly admit to that, but it oozes out from everything that they do say. I've heard enough, I'm not interested any more. I don't want to give racists the time of day and I'm not interested in what they have to say.

I do absolutely listen to the many people I encounter who are struggling but don't look to scapegoat immigrants for their troubles. What they have to say about the problems that they're facing is actually far more useful and informative.

Then the smear campaign will have worked.

Frightening times. I'm sorry you're going through that. But it seems to be a contagion in Europe.

So many new posters on here all banging on about how wonderful R*form are with token posts on other threads. Nige must be getting desperate if he’s paying people to post on MN.