Friends child and gender change!

[Namechangeforthis44]

Don't know if this is the right place to post, but just need some input.
Meeting up with a friend soon, whose child has changed gender. I have no issues with that, live and let live.
BUT
Friend has indicated that we not reminisce about kids childhood as this will trigger her child.
As we have moved away, we only see them every few years, so the one thing we do chat about is their childhood memories.
I think it's unreasonable to tell my kids we can't talk about their memories while we meet up with them.
How do I tackle this?

@WomensRightsRenegade

I think we need to fully disagree on this one. I know my child and you don't. There hasn't been any doubt in his mind for several years about whether he feels male or female. He has asked us to respect this and we are. When he first mentioned it, we assumed it would be down to hormones raging but no. We have seen the change in him since we agreed to the name change and how he presents himself. We questioned it of course as it's a huge step but he is far more confident and comfortable in his own skin.

Even if in x no of years, he did change his mind, we would still support it. I highly doubt it though.

@Marblessolveeverything

Too bloody right. Everybody deserves respect. It's really not difficult

Ffs there is a lot of assumptions being made here.
If the OP only sees her friend once every couple of years she could have been to hell and back. The best thing you can do with dc with gender issues is get them away from the computer. Many live an isolated life. That's part of the online tactics. It could be the DC said I don't want to go because I will be questioned, argued with etc. If that happens they will run and possibly not come back. The mother is trying to keep the close in my Hubble opinion.
Cass is fabulous but if you want to know why females get drawn into this listen to the podcast by Dr Soh. It's a cult like ideology.
Adults that's their business and the numbers there are tiny.

This. I wouldn't trust a school that gaslights its pupils and coerces them to lie.

Wtf message does that send out at this time of global political and climate instability.

Or is it just grooming them to accept the corrupt status quo? Because if this lie is ok, lying politicians are no biggie, right?

The child (or teen) may be receiving psychiatric help for all you know. Which wouldn’t be the disgrace you seem to think it is.

@CelesteCunningham

Not many more blatant examples of transphobia than saying you would end a friendship because someone has a trans child.

I’m vehemently anti trans affirming and the nonsense and denial of biology that comes with it but I agree with this.

If I had a trans child (God willing I never will), I would find it chilling that other families would shun me and my child on the grounds that I was “encouraging” or “facilitating” it. It must be an incredibly stressful and lonely place to be the parent of such a child. It doesn’t follow that every trans child has a parent who has supported them.

I know a family where a daughter identifies as a boy and it’s been unbearably painful and difficult for the mum. Why on earth would someone want that? And why would you think being in a constant state of antagonism make it go away?

If people remove old friendships and support networks from these vulnerable kids because they are worried about their own kids “catching trans” or whatever they risk doing these kids profound harm and increasing their sense of alienation. Yes it’s madness to have to indulge the kafkaesque stuff about gender but you are hardly helping by increasing the sense that it’s a shameful taboo.

@Alwaysalwayscold
Well he was in the waiting list for Tavistock but that's clearly no longer open. So CAMHS are having to pick up the shortfall whilst new help/counselling become available. New waiting lists are estimated to be 3 years so he'll be an adult then and undoubtedly need to be transferred to the adult list which is even longer

Whether as some of you claim, none of this is real, it's not that way to my son and so support and counselling is required to ensure such a life changing process is dealt with properly.

@Thepeopleversuswork

Thank you.

Surely the fact that these "services" are being taken away, let's you know that they are NOT safe and you shouldn't be chasing them?

What do you intend to do? Sterilise your child? You do know that so called 'puberty blockers' are NOT reversible and cause lasting damage?

There's some incredibly out of date thinking on here.

It's more than possible to love and support a gender confused child without having to affirm their latest gender. If you had an anorexic child you would love and support them without agreeing they are fat.

If you had a teen who was madly in love for the first time, you wouldn't think it was kind to just affirm that they will always be with that person. Nor would you say, 'oh you'll probably split up by the time you go to university', even though you would know that is extremely likely to happen. You would find age appropriate ways to support them, and you would step in if they were going to do something irreversible like getting the name of their crush tattooed on their arm.

We know from the Cass review that most gender questioning kids grow out of it. We also know that medical transition can have horrific side effects. A recent study showed that girls who take testosterone are likely to be incontinent in a few years. Who wants that for their child?

So the answer is to give children love and support and room to change their minds. Ask open questions. Encourage them to get involved in real-life activities away from their screens. Give them room to mature before they do anything irreversible.

@Alwaysalwayscold
That's why getting support is so important. There is a lot for counselling before any permanent changes are made.

I am not naive enough to believe that every child who says they are trans gender ultimately end up being so and that there are less than reputable forums/groups out there who take advantage of these children/young adults. I also believe that there will be those who are genuinely transgender. What I want and am seeking is the proper support and counselling for my child to allow him to make the correct decisions for him.

People are so quick to judge when what these people need is support and understanding. Clearly not readily available judging by some of these posts

Utter drivel. And I don’t think you understand what “vanishingly rare” means.

Your poor daughter.

My child has been waiting for 7 years for that mythical counselling. 6 years on the Tavi list, then bumped the adult list where the wait begins again - not one single session of counselling has been offered as it’s ‘gender dysphoria’ and only Tavi could deal with it and so NOTHING was offered for the anxiety, suicidal ideation, the self harming. And the ASD/ADHD? Nope that is a different department and it SEN focussed.

and if she ever got there? Do you REALLY think there is intensive therapy? Did you ignore the Cass report or any interviews with detransitioners (esp the ones suing the Sandiford and the Tavistock, v much in the media - Richie Herron for eg)? Under the model to-date they simply walked out after one meeting with a referral to an endocrinologist who was under instructions not to query it and simply prescribe. Most of these young people were transitioned on to medication after one or two sessions there is no 2-3 year counselling programme prior to reaching a decision; there is no differential diagnosis to assess whether there is ASD, ADHD, BPD, or any other underlying psychological or psychiatric case may underly the need to evade puberty or the physical/social/psychological consequences of adulthood or being their biological sex.

In the meantime there has been self harming and suicidal ideation (not because he actually wanted to die, she doesn't/didn’t, but because the online friends convinced her this would help her jump the wait list - they stopped after the third paracetamol OD). In fact suicidiality (ie attempts, some successful) increase 7fold AFTER medical transition - the sweet spot is 2 years. In the end, with a full year out of education, isolated from her cheerleading friends, reading the research that indicates she would likely be incontinent within a few years of starting testosterone (she sees what that does to me) and an increased incidence of liver disease and tumours; irreversible osteoporosis due to premature menopause, she’s decided that maybe she’d rather get along with a body that she kind of hates rather than put herself in nappies and a wheelchair. She’s desisting. And she might have done so sooner if affirmation approach from school/nhs/medicine had not groomed her. It’s not transphobia to want your child to have proper therapy and to do everything to prevent the consequences of surgery. But you won’t get it under the NHS as it is or as it will be if/when Labour get in.

People are so quick to judge when what these people need is support and understanding. Clearly not readily available judging by some of these posts

I don't think anyone would disagree with this. However, I am not prepared to have my children gas lit, and have their speech compelled - all to prop up one of their peer's fragile metal health - especially if the adults in that child's life are irresponsibly going along with and encouraging their child's delusional thinking.

How are the gender dysphoric children going to feel in the future when they look back and realise that the adults around them, including parents and teachers allowed them to believe that they can change sex, when it will become clear to the child that these adults knew this was not even remotely possible.

And what about the other children caught up in this - what about their metal health. My eldest is 8 and has been with the same classmates since reception. How would he ever trust an adult to tell him the truth again if he was suddenly told that Allegra was now actually a boy called Alan? The cognitive dissonance that he would expected to go along with would would severely compromise his world-view as he is old enough to know the biological difference between the sexes and that somethings are not possible to change. Fair enough if Allegra wanted to dress in boy's uniform and be called Alan - but a girl cannot actually become a boy and vice versa, and no child should be told any different.

Trauma or sexual abuse are massively over represented in children who identify as trans.

Therefore refusing to talk about the past, is fairly problematic. Walking on eggshells and not addressing underlying issues isn't going to problem.

Indeed the parent asking not to talk about the past is a massive red flag. Parent is trying to add suppressing something.

No way would I put my own children into that situation if the choice was down to me. It's unfair on your own children and they should be your priority.

Woo woo pushing parents aren't nice or kind. They are setting their child up for an even bigger fall later down the road.

You are doing great. 💖 I just want to give you a big hug.

My partner is a transman. He was lucky that his family were awesome and supportive.

He came out as gay at 18. Then as trans at 31.
He's now almost 40. He's the best person I know. 💖 He's the best person a lot of us know.

His friends love for him was one of the reasons I fell for him.

I think threads like this aren't about anything beyond getting people riled up.

I notice OP started with they can't talk about the past, to now being upset she can't use the old name/sex.

I understand some people find this all confusing and uncomfortable but for the life of me I couldn't be bothered with the upset even before I met him.

My heart goes out to you and your beautiful son. xx

@Josette77
Thank you.

Could you not avoid the topic of whether or not the anorexic child is fat though? To use your analogy.

I mean, that is literally the best and most considerate way to approach that situation anyway.

No one is asking you or OP to believe anything. You and OP are not being oppressed here. Just avoiding a potentially distressing topic, as a friend.

How would he ever trust an adult to tell him the truth again if he was suddenly told that Allegra was now actually a boy called Alan?

Maybe get a sense of perspective. People change their names all the time and you can explain in an age appropriate way that some people feel better living and presenting as the opposite sex which is why they are called transgender. I found out about trans people when I was at school and it didn’t in the slightest way make me not trust adults. That really is fear mongering in the highest degree.

It's ironic that while discussing transkids fragile mental health you're concerned your child won't trust adults again because they've been told their classmate changed their name and wants to be referred to as a girl/boy.

How so? What is the irony in not wanting my child's mental health/trust in their own eyes sacrificed because another parent has chosen to affirm their child's delusion that they are of a different sex to the one they are born? Socially transitioning a child and expecting their peers to go along with it is not a neutral act.

Do you genuinely think your child’s mental health will be affected if a child in their class identifies as trans? Really?

You think the existence of a transkid in your child's class would impact their mental health?

You do know that you can explain to your dc that thier classmate wants to be called John and be treated like a boy, without them thinking a vulva turns into a penis right?

Not necessarily- I’m playing devil’s advocate a bit - but I don’t think that the classmates of a gender dysphoric child should be expected to affirm and externally validate that child’s chosen gender and be compelled to use pronouns that don’t match biological sex if they do not wish to. Each to their own - anyone can dress and feel how they choose, but expecting other children to externally validate another’s delusion is not acceptable and should not be encouraged.