Friends child and gender change!

[Namechangeforthis44]

Don't know if this is the right place to post, but just need some input.
Meeting up with a friend soon, whose child has changed gender. I have no issues with that, live and let live.
BUT
Friend has indicated that we not reminisce about kids childhood as this will trigger her child.
As we have moved away, we only see them every few years, so the one thing we do chat about is their childhood memories.
I think it's unreasonable to tell my kids we can't talk about their memories while we meet up with them.
How do I tackle this?

most people would catch up on all the stuff that’s gone on since you last met.

That is the past!

You know when people say that there's transphobia on MN, and the inevitable "Where, show us where, give us specific examples" response comes?

Well this is a very obvious example.

Not many more blatant examples of transphobia than saying you would end a friendship because someone has a trans child.

I think you should stamp your feet, hang your fists on the table and cry, “But I WANT to talk about the past!! It’s not faaaaaaaiiiir!!!!” Extra points if you can make yourself cry.

I would say "Friend, we understand that child no longer wants to be referred to as a girl, and will refer to then by their new name. However, I can't offer you any guarantee that I or the DC won't say anything that upsets them. While we obviously won't go out of our way to talk about the period before child decided this if it upsets them, I can't ask the children to censor themselves the entire weekend. So, with that in mind, would you prefer we didn't come?"

I’d not be pandering to this at all.

I would imagine your teens will be much more sensitive to the issue than you appear to be, so they will be fine.

That's all very well but you still have not answered what you would do or how you would act if it was your child who was in this situation?

All these people saying 'oh they just need a stern talking to from a professional' or 'I wouldn't put up with this nonsense' clearly have not actually had to face this personally.

I know someone whose child is having an incredibly hard time with this - under psychiatric care, on suicide watch, has been hospitalised, in regular weeky therapy, has not left the house in 6 months, has missed school etc.

What would you recommend that mother should do? Fling the Cass report at the kid & tell them to buck up? Or cop on?

Do you think I should get on my moral high horse & say I won't be around you or your kid in case it's catching?

Or should I continue to meet & treat them with kindness when it's costing me absolutely nothing to do so?

I know which path I choose & have done & will do.

Suggestions-

So lovely to see you guys! What have you got up over the spring?
did you have a good Christmas?
oh my goodness you’ll never believe what happened …..
Little Jane here has been (insert activity) and she’s doing so well!
big Thomas here has (insert thing)
Aunt Sarah died sadly ..
how’s your mum and dad/any surviving relatives faring ? health okay?
what are your summer plans then?
we are planning to have quiet/exotic summer…
things are so expensive these days right
the world is burning

no? Doesn’t work?

@CelesteCunningham the term 'trans child' is now out of date. Dr Hilary Cass makes a point of using the more appropriate term 'gender questioning child' in her seminal review.

Using the outdated term 'trans child' suggests that the young person will remain trans, but we now know for a fact that the vast majority of them will desist as they get older.

The Cass review has shown that girls who are questioning their gender currently outnumber boys six to one, doesn't that make you stop and think?

It's clearly not kind to do anything that (even inadvertently) pushes them towards a medical pathway that could permanently damage their health.

This

Especially if this is the first time you have all got together post transition whatever the heck that even means then even with the best intentions there may be slip ups or the occasional accidental misgender.

On these instances I would be looking for the same tolerance and patience from friend that they will expect of me. Because especially for kids this is easy to do as they only know this child as the person they were before. They may miss the boy/girl they used to be friends with while enjoying getting to know this new side of their friend.

So yes it's going to be tricky to begin with but #bekind has to work both ways.

I don't actually think it's right or fair to allow your small child to believe they can change sex. I think it's cruel to play along with a fiction like this. But hey ho.

Actually I think it's natural and quite common, when catching up with friends you only see occasionally but have known for donkeys, to reminisce That's not living in the past

There’s a middle ground here surely?

I’m not a supporter of self ID, don’t believe anyone is “born in the wrong body” or anything like this. I think it’s a dangerous ideology and I find it tiresome when people convince themselves it’s real.

But I also recognise that it has become a burning platform for a lot of teens with mental health issues and that being stridently dismissive and scoffing at it is as likely to be helpful as it was in the 1970s to laugh at kids who were dressing punk and saying “you’re not going out like that!”. (I am not comparing these two situations btw just saying the impact of this reaction is likely similarly ineffectual.)

The mum of this kid is obviously desperately trying not to upset and trigger her kid and recognises that spending time with close friends from the time they were the “wrong gender” is likely to do that. She is probably trying to protect her own mental health too.

I would feel uncomfortable with the idea that my kids couldn’t discuss shared experiences but I would also try to convey that this child is going through something difficult and try to get them to empathise with them.

You can use this as a learning experience for them in the grey areas of mental health and gender ideology and managing difficult situations without going to either extreme.

You don’t have to force your kids into an Orwellian mindset where they expunge all reference to this child’s former life. And you should probably warn your friend that you are not going to brainwash them into thinking this child has actually “changed sex”. But neither do you need to be a bull in a China shop and keep saying: “Do you remember when Johnny played football for x,” if Johnny is now Janet. Just sensible empathy and practical diplomacy.

Mmm. Not so sure. A lot of young people seem to be losing empathy pretty fast ime. Partly as a result of seeing several friends 'transition' then 'de transition' which can fuel some resentment when they have been forced to change their behaviour (often in much more extreme ways than not mentioning the past) to accommodate their peers preferred new 'gender' only to later be told 'oh I'm not into that anymore'. I think eye rolls are becoming increasingly common.
Obviously this is unhelpful for children who are struggling with their MH. But the approach that doesn't allow this to be explained and just requires unthinking acceptance that a boy is now a girl can make it hard to navigate with teens who are often drawing their own conclusions and behaving accordingly.

She’s not said she’d end the friendship because her friends child was trans, you've wilfully misinterpreted.

It is not transphobic to have different views on how you would support a child questioning their gender.

Reinforcing the notion that someone can be born in the wrong body and can change their biological sex is irresponsible. It will not help that child address the real cause of their unhappiness (eg undiagnosed autism). Many would find it hard to watch a friend take that approach.

OP you friend will have gone through a difficult time.
Trans communities often encourage threats of suicide and self harm is rife.
Her apparent acceptance maybe all she can do to keep that child alive.
Do not assume she affirms this gender change. She is walking on eggshells.
The more her teen is included in normal family events the better.
I have a ftm, some use her male name others don't. If people are rude I counter with the tough life to choose argument (you need to own it if you choose a trans life, it isn't all glitter).
Seven years in my DC will marry a man and have her ownchildren. I have no idea why she feels masculine but thank God she is studying something academic that questions this ideology.
Your teens will be fine. Nothing to see here.
You also don't know how many people have shunned your friend. I Iost two. Kindness is key.

@justteanbiscuits no I wouldn't remove my child from a class with a trans kid in, it's an all girls school. What I will not tell her to do is lie and gaslight herself into pretending it's a boy.

For me it's not about removing them because of a trans child. I like to think I have instilled enough sense in them for them to know it's impossible/ridiculous etc.

It's more that I would have to remove them from any school that facilitates it and allows it to happen. The "trans" children get all sorts of special treatment (what school child doesn't want that) and it spreads like wildfire.

OMG. I'm the mother of a transgender teen and is really struggling with having to wait 3+ years for gender services. Is that how families like ours are seen by others? Overdramatic, attention seeking etc.

To the pp who said your child needs psychiatric help, actually he does. Waiting such a long time to be the person he is, is incredibly difficult. Thankfully our friends seems more tolerant and understanding. Our son knows we will get it wrong sometimes but everyone is trying to support him. And I will gobsmacked if this turns out to be a phase.

The request isn’t to not discuss a person who has passed. That’s a stupid comparison.

The request is to comply with this weirdy belief that a child has now ‘changed gender’ (whatever the hell that means) and pretend the past your children shared doesn’t exist anymore.

If someone believed the earth was flat and asked me never to discuss anything to do with circumnavigation - THAT would be the comparison.

So if your friend asked you to avoid the topic of circumnavigation you wouldn't then? What kind of a friend are you?

One who believes in material reality, and doesn’t go along with parents abusing their kids. I wouldn’t go along with the delusion that a mum’s anorexic daughter was fat, either.

Of course you didn’t think to ask what kind of friend asks their friend to adopt their own cult beliefs.

Well said

What do you mean by "gender services"?

@WomensRightsRenegade well given the person considered the name to be deadnamed I stand by my opinion.

Nobody is asking you to change your gender there is a child asking for people to respect a need. I really fail to see the ignorance and bike about a childs request.

But then I have watched a family fight tooth and nail for their trans ,(child) now adult child to be respected. You have no idea if this child has engaged in self harm, suicidal ideology etc.

Why would grown adults not understand that they may not know best and either comply or not visit 🤷‍♀️