Friends child and gender change!

[Namechangeforthis44]

Don't know if this is the right place to post, but just need some input.
Meeting up with a friend soon, whose child has changed gender. I have no issues with that, live and let live.
BUT
Friend has indicated that we not reminisce about kids childhood as this will trigger her child.
As we have moved away, we only see them every few years, so the one thing we do chat about is their childhood memories.
I think it's unreasonable to tell my kids we can't talk about their memories while we meet up with them.
How do I tackle this?

the impact of testosterone on a female body is much greater than oestrogen on a male body. FTM transitioners will quickly develop male patterns of hairiness and experience changes in their voice. Usually irreversible. They can quickly change muscle bulk with exercise. Whereas oestrogen does not roll back hair follicle development in men, restore hair loss to male pattern baldness, soften jaw lines, shrink the Adams apple and soften the voice, shrink and realign the skeleton. Those make characteristics are permanent.

In addition, your partner would not be perceived as a threat in the same way as a man - we all read people subconsciously as well as consciously and your partner will not have many of the male characteristics that cause women to raise their alerts, such as skeletal shape and gait. This is the opposite to the situation for MtF transitioners.

TL;DR version - the transitioning experience is not mirrored or proportional for women and men.

You've obviously not read the full thread.

I was the only female on a college course. One tutor called everyone else by just their surname. But insisted on calling me Ms Tea. I was 17, and didn't ever use Ms. I asked to be treated the same way as the others in the class. I was struggling to fit in to an entirely male culture as it was. And he always heavily emphasised the Ms. Just because I wasn't Mr, he treated me differently to all those who were. It was very uncomfortable indeed.

@justteanbiscuits
That sounds horrible.

But I don't see how it's to do with your pronouns.

You were singled out because you're female.
The tutor was a bullying misogynist who would have treated any other woman on the course the same.

As I said. I have friends who work in the area, and I thought it would be a really important statistic for them. I wanted to find out more about it and learn.

To be fair, if your friends work in the area, they should have read that book themselves a long time ago. It's a very important source.

And I'd pause before accusing Hannah Barnes of making up sources. She's an extremely respected journalist.

Well as 'Ms' isn't a pronoun it wasn't that clear.

Here is a summary from the Time to Think book.

It was his USE of pronouns that was pathetic. And his refusal to call me what I asked to be called.

Where did I accuse her of making up sources? All I have done is asked for the source. Which the person that has the book is refusing to give, and others are accusing me of expecting her to put HOURS of work in and transcribe HUGE PASSAGES which is so pathetically hyperbolic I should be laughing.

I asked, the original poster could have said "sorry, I can't get to the book at the moment" and I'd have said fine. Instead there is a minor pile on where I am the most entitled person ever and expecting the poor poster to spend hours and hours and hours sorting this out and I should just spend money on it instead. My mistake was expecting people to be vaguely polite about it - if I had said that I would be happy to follow up with the source. But obviously I am some kind of freak thinking that trans issues can be discussed without pathetic name calling.

Oh, I see you misunderstood where I suggested the original poster doesn't have an idea on the source. Not the author of the book.

It's a title that is connected to your pronoun. Sorry if I made it too difficult to understand.

And lovely screenshot, but it still doesn't include any sources for the stat I am asking about. As I have said, I have searched for the source quite extensively and have been unable to find anything about it, so I asked for the source. Again, apologies for making that too hard to understand.

Well now you know where the source has come from, the next step is reading the book, hmm?

Why are you expecting strangers on the internet to find a source for you? This is not the way the world works. If you can't physically get to a library most local authority libraries have e-books these days. You don't need to even go to the library to set this up, you can do it via email or over the phone - or will you now say someone else should pay your for your phone minutes or internet bill so you can do this?

If you have friends who work in this area, Hannah Barnes' book is considered an important one, so if they are not working for one of the doggedly pro-trans organisations, I'm sure they will have already read it. If not then it will be obvious where their agenda lies.

Also I have no idea what you consider your pronouns to be, so not sure what you are on about there..

If people want to educate themselves on a topic then they need to do the legwork. That book has been around for many months now and got a good deal of publicity. If people in the field are ignoring it, that's for a reason.

You were targeted because of your SEX not your pronouns. You are deep in gender woo.

Try reading the thread. I'm not currently in a position to pay for a book for it's source. The poster said all statistics in the book were backed up with an attribution . So I asked what the attribution was. Apparently this equated to HOURS and transcribing HUGE passages.

As I said, if the poster simply said they weren't able to do this, rather than all the ridiculous posts about me being oh so entitled, I'd have said fine. And not bothered following it up any further.

The hyperbole in this thread has reached really pathetic and ridiculous levels now. None of you know what my stance on trans is. Rather than just get all frothing on a forum, I actually put my money where my mouth is and get involved in consultations to find a fair, safe solution. But when people just attack attack attack, then it pushes people further away from their cause.

I'm in a position where having the source for this statistic could make a difference. It could change opinions. Because surely, you and others want people to feel the same as you do? If someone asks for information, that you have, telling them they're being entitled for asking for it, being argumentative and hyperbolic is never going to get people supporting your point of view.

I checked that out thanks. This book isn't available.

As I say, keep up the excellent work of division and hatred. God forbid you're ever in a position to help someone learn more on a subject.

The book is the source, compiled through research with those involved. Read it or don't.

Them get it out of the library like anyone else. And if you aren't prepared to do that, admit that you're not really that concerned about educating yourself with this important info (fine, no issue with that, but be upfront).

This forum doesn't exist as your personal research team. If you want to question the data, you can only do that from the position of reading what Barnes has to say. It's in the book, it's not all in the public domain.

I think you are just trying to derail the thread now. I've seen this on many other thread like this, where a TRA tries to do this. If you really wanted this info without needing to rely on a poster who may have got the book from the library themselves and no longer has it to hand, why not message Hannah Barnes on Twitter and ask her directly? Or if you don't have a twitter account, send an email to her via her publisher.

Libraries let you order in books from other branches if they don't have them in stock.

You could also apply for a temporary reading ticket in a local uni library, to read it in situ. They often have these facilities.

Or visit a bookshop and read it in there.

Lots of options if you actually, genuinely want to know.

Yes, let me just book the annual leave to go to a local university library 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

As I said. It's fine. It's just the hilarity of you all getting on your high horses about me asking for someone, who says they have the information, to provide a source. Maximum of 2 minutes if the book is to hand. Go back and read the utterly ridiculous posts you've all been making. All these hours and hours it would take the poster, the huge passages they'd need to type.

It's ridiculous. And I'm not actually TRA. But I'm also not rabidly into doing anything I could to hurt a child who has asked not to discuss their past. Which is why I worked pretty hard with the body for the sport my children do to come up with a policy that is fair to girls. And why I have made friends who work in the gender world for various bodies (so not for mermaids etc, but for various bodies unconnected with the actual medical side. So, think policy makers for sporting bodies etc). I thought the 1 in 10 kids referred to Tavistock having a father with a sexual assault / abuse background was an important statistic to get more information on and bring to the discussion.

It's clear that what is more important to you all is point scoring and attacking. Not actually trying to make a difference for girls. That's where we differ. I actually want to make the world safer and better for girls and women, not just win arguments on the internet.

It is VERY eye opening that none of you are interested in where I stand on the issue - you'd much rather presume and attack. So good luck with that. A shame this is how you actually when you could have actually made a difference.

And why I have made friends who work in the gender world for various bodies (so not for mermaids etc, but for various bodies unconnected with the actual medical side. So, think policy makers for sporting bodies etc). I thought the 1 in 10 kids referred to Tavistock having a father with a sexual assault / abuse background was an important statistic to get more information on and bring to the discussion.

If you genuinely have friends who world for these types of organisations, they will have read this book for themselves - no policy maker in sporting bodies etc will not be very aware of these issues, and Time to Think would be one of the first books on their reading list. If they haven't read it though, why not just recommend that they might want to check it out.

You seem to think you are being personally attacked, when posters have been suggesting many ways for you to try to get this source. No-one is trying to 'point score' against you - why would we? Sounds a bit like you have got main character syndrome. I don't know why the poster you originally asked hasn't got back to you - maybe they are having a busy day at work, or have other things to do.

So I wasn't told I was entitled? or that I was expecting the poster to put in hours and hours of work typing huge amounts in?? I wasn't told I was TRA when they know nothing about me?

Sorry, I must be hallucinating!!

Sorry for your loss but, on the contrary, I reckon you have to be a real dick to try and police how other people speak.🤷‍♀️

Your examples aren't comparing like with like. I wouldn't have wanted people talking about my dad dying, sure. But I would welcome any talk about happy memories, which is what this parent is saying must not be discussed. There's a difference.

Yes, let me just book the annual leave to go to a local university library 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

As you well know, you've been offered multiple ways of checking this source, if you actually genuinely want to. So quit being disingenuous about it. As it happens, my closest uni library is open on Saturday mornings. However if that doesn't suit you, there are multiple other suggestions on here. Which you can see.

However if you don't actually care, you just wanted to throw shade on the posters claim without actually investigating anything for yourself then fine, but everyone can see that for what it is.

Barnes seems very approachable, if you want to get in contact with her. But I suggest you begin from a position of some knowledge about what's she's already put in the public domain.

I think the poster is just trying to derail the thread, so I won't engage any further - she obviously doesn't really want the source or she would have followed one of our helpful suggestions :)