To want every women in England to vote Tory at the GR

[Hurrydash]

So I don't agree with Angela Rayner's description of the Tories as scum, but I get her drift and if she'd been more tempered in her language I probably would have bought in.

HOWEVER

For me - and actually should be got everyone - the only real issue at the next GE is freedom of speech/women's rights.

I see Labour as the destroyer of these and so must vote against them. The only meaningful way to do this is to vote Tory which I am reluctant but prepared to do.

Is this unreasonable?

Happy to be convinced - for real not just words - if there is evidence Labour (Starmer 1 in 1000 women have a dick) may see the light before the GE.

If he will openly lie about this, how can he be trusted on ANYTHING?

I worry much more about the harm another Tory term would do to women.

They're leaning increasingly bonkers right wing and they'd get worse and worse. I'm sure if they're let in again they will cut maternity rights, they'll say it's to 'improve productivity - they have made no secret of the fact they think people should have fewer rights, which is never a good thing. I don't put it beyond them to come after abortion as a 'solution' to falling birth rates either.

And OK, let's say they somehow ban trans women from toilets or changing rooms. Are next years figures of sexually violence going to show a measurable drop in assaults on women in those spaces that can be attributed to that legislation? Are men or trans women who want to abuse women going to go 'Oh no, it's illegal for me to go into toilets, I'll not abuse any women' or will they keep on doing it or just assault women somewhere else. I have heard people say 'oh, so just because you can't stop all assaults on women, you won't try to prevent them in one context' - but it won't. Assaulting women is illegal. The bastards do it regardless.

It might be achieving something if these spaces were the only places men could ever get access to women to assault, but we know full well they are not, sadly.

What we will see is more assaults on women who are tall, look masculine, are butch lesbians (God knows why, but people think a butch who isn't even trying to look like a woman, must be a man), wasted police time being called to reports of 'men' being in women's spaces etc. And just rationally, statistically, I cannot see it having any measurable positive impact on women's safety, but it might have a negative one in the ways I mention above. Plus more policing of 'womanliness'. Well done.

True it’s the GRA legislation that provides the foundation

You can see other govs go further - hence Canada, NZ until recently and others, the SNP’s new bill which enables abuse at women but potentially stops people mentioning biological reality is a recent example

That poster lives in Australia, they said so upthread.

Yes, I've responded to subsequent posts. I still think the OP's stance is idiotic.

It's really interesting that people keep asking where money will come from. It would seem that we have all lived under 'austerity' for so long that many have forgotten that this is simply a political choice. We don't have to live this way.

The Tories have made the choice to cut from the bottom but we don't have to. Just like a household budget we can all choose how we spend the same amount of money and have very different shopping bags. It's also worth pointing out, austerity hasn't really worked as George Osbourne et al forecast and really the Tories should have pivoted away from it some time ago - but they haven't (one would assume as it kept generating wealth for their paymasters). Things can go wrong but to just continue doing the same thing but expecting a different outcome is somewhat short sighted.

And just to say it again, the current tax burden is higher now than it ever was under labour - we pay more for less services.

If you think this is just about toilets, you are misunderstanding enormously.

And I say that as someone who has experienced sexual assault by a transwoman in a toilet - he was standing at the sink masturbating as I came out.

I've said before, there is no way on this earth I will call him 'she'.

Labours take on womens rights is a massive flaw in their current modus operandi and I won’t be voting for them.

Same

I think Stonehouse is dead.

Ah but women are supposed to 'be kind' and budge up for everyone else - especially penis wielders. And how very DARE women even THINK about voting in their own interests?

Agree @WaterWeasel

Yawn. Same old posters pontificating about their petty obsession.

All of these points have been answered so many times. Anyone who's interested is recommended to hit 'Talk' & then 'Feminism', where these discussions take place. There's at least one thread there which explains it all for newcomers. Sorry, I don't know which one it is, but I hope someone who does will link to it from here.

Suffice it to say that as someone who's actually worked in dealing with sexual violence, I disagree with Echobelly.

You're clearly not understanding the importance of this issue. If we allow men to self-ID as women then women (i.e. adult human females) no longer exist as a class of people. We can no longer expect our sex-based rights to be upheld. We can no longer campaign for new sex-based rights. Because we don't exist. It's bigger than lavatory seats.

@WaterWeasel how the hell is voting for this load of scammers ie the tories furthering women’s interests and those of their daughters ?

Transpeople can't win when it comes to which lavatory to use imo.

Friend's trans child was barred from a pub in the most humiliating manner when they used the female toilet. They were using the women's because they'd been beaten up by some transphobes when they used the mens' some weeks earlier.

Oh, do feck off!

Those Tory bastards couldn't care less about women's rights! They care about nothing but themselves and the rich people they work to take care of.

They are literally playing you for your vote and I will not fall for that shit.

Although I’ve voted both Tory and Labour in the past (I’ve no loyalty to either party), I have literally no idea who to vote for this time round. Definitely not Tory and I don’t want to vote Labour either and I don’t want to waste a vote. I’m genuinely flummoxed.

Oh hi Tory PR person!

Of course you're being unreasonable. Nobody in their right mind is going to vote Tory - although I suppose there may be a few people who get off on corruption on a massive scale, rivers and seas full of shit, wrecked public services, and women and kids living in poverty.

Guess there's a kink for everyone 😉

All of this.
I felt much more supported as a woman under Labour when my kids were little, the Sure Start centres were brilliant for example, lots of support for new mums.
The NHS didn't feel so broken either.
Tories being good for women?
Ha, that's a laugh.

It really is - I wonder why they won't do the simple thing and be clear that they are not in thrall to genderism? If all of the Labour voters on here are correct and it matters so very little - why are Labour unable to get rid of it?

Where did I say it was?

A good argument for third spaces then, no?