To want every women in England to vote Tory at the GR

[Hurrydash]

So I don't agree with Angela Rayner's description of the Tories as scum, but I get her drift and if she'd been more tempered in her language I probably would have bought in.

HOWEVER

For me - and actually should be got everyone - the only real issue at the next GE is freedom of speech/women's rights.

I see Labour as the destroyer of these and so must vote against them. The only meaningful way to do this is to vote Tory which I am reluctant but prepared to do.

Is this unreasonable?

Happy to be convinced - for real not just words - if there is evidence Labour (Starmer 1 in 1000 women have a dick) may see the light before the GE.

For me, what pushed me out of feminist circles was that it was the ONLY thing being discussed, and it was a discussion dominated by white, well-off women. Try and talk about women and poverty, the gender pay gap, parenting, even prostitution and nobody cared - feminism became a single-issue movement. Perhaps ironically, it's what pushed me towards getting involved with local politics and local homelessness charities instead, because at least that does something positive to actively help women who are struggling with poverty etc.

I've explained my position. I am not engaging with you any more.

Love how people think things will suddenly improve under Labour. They struggle to get their own party in order - God knows what they'll do to the country!

As far as I'm concerned, Tory and Labour are two cheeks of the same arse.

This. Would NEVER votw tory. But im scottish so tory supporters always rare here.

You believe wrong.

Statistically, around 1 in 4 of the women on this thread who don't agree with your stance are rape survivors or sexual assault survivors or domestic abuse survivors (or all three). Are you denying their lived experience?

Correct, but the Tory cheek is padded out from them spending so much time focusing on stealing from the poor/disabled/non-white to line their pockets.

Nothing will 'suddenly' improve under Labour - the country is far too fucked for that. It's to be hoped they win more than one term of office so they can actually make a positive difference.

Perhaps you could explain where and how you've heard of anyone having a fear/disgust/hatred of transwomen.

In my years of being active in this, I have never once, not once, come across ANY feminist who has a fear/disgust/hatred of trans people. I think you are making things up, misrepresenting, defaming and gaslighting to create a false narrative.

Why is it wrong to be against someone 'legally' changing their sex? You realise that means any previous crime history is destroyed right? Why would you actively support a male offender legally changing sex, hiding their crimes so DBS would not catch them out, and, it means a person with penis and testicles in womens spaces? Who would actually support that?

they actually want to reduce the numbers of trans people.

This is just beyond ridiculous hyperbole and absurd. It's the 'LiTeRaL gEnOCidE!!!' line all over again!

I want people to do so too. Please also vote for Susan Hall if you live in London, in May for mayor. We have not had a female major of London and she has done masses of work here in outer London for many years. It is not right to have a major for 3 whole terms so even if you are a fan of Khan i t is time for a change. Even if you cannot be bothered to vote do it for me as I am subject to outer London ulez which Susan Hall will abolish on day one.

Only a lunatic would vote for that absolute nutjob.

And I have explained my position. I don't need you misrepresenting me or gaslighting, thank you very much.

Labour can't solve the cost of living crisis. They can't save the NHS either. No government can, and that's the very uncomfortable truth.

The country was living on borrowed money in 2019 when the tories got their 'stonking majority' (no one seemed particularly fussed about national debt then!) and has progressed to being completely on the bones of its arse financially because of the covid response and the ukraine war.
The NHS was teetering due to an ageing population and demand outstripping contribution, the pandemic response hastened its demise. The NHS model isnt sustainable long term.

The government should never have bowed to pressure and closed schools and the economy. There must be a sizeable majority of people on here however (given about 80% of the population were demanding full lockdown!) who demanded same and are now 'blaming' the government because they're, personally, skint.

I hope Labour improve people's standard of living. I doubt it though; they're going to be negotiating the very same challenges the tories have over the last 4 years.

The Tory party is NO friend of women. Any vote for the Tories is a vote against women.

Can't stand them for a multitude of reasons - but in fairness, aren't they the only party to have had a three female Prime Ministers (albeit one of them for only 49 days!)?

So, in those instances, people were literally voting FOR a woman.

That is your right, of course if you wish to move away to that it’s what you care about. I don’t think the claim that women motivated by re establishing single sex spaces, or safeguarding children or similar are any less feminist or not left wing.

I don’t think either stand up and it’s a disservice to women who do get stuff changed tbh to undermine it all. Some women have brought about change to great personal cost.

That doesn’t mean other women can’t focus on what you do, in fact FWR was split so the gender stuff could be avoided by those who wanted to look at feminism without it

I'm a SA/DV survivor, and you know who i have had the most emotional and practical support from while in the process of getting out to safety, coping with my disability and my sons, and rediscovering myself? My Trans/Queer/disabled community friends.

They're the ones guarding the doors in the pub when the only disabled toilet has to be shared, to keep the men out and give me peace to pee.
They're the ones protecting me from my violent ex husband.
They're the ones helping me find support and come to terms with the body i have because its failing me, and showing me just because it's different, its still me, and still valid.

My point?
People who suffer sexual trauma are not a homogenous group of people with the same experience or opinion. Stop trying to shove us all in the same box.

No fucking way will I ever vote for the Tory party.

Don't worry. she has no chance of getting in.

"Our first survey on national attitudes towards the Mayor of London since mid-2022 shows Khan’s popularity has declined slightly: 24% have a favourable view of Khan (-3), while 56% have an unfavourable opinion (+5)2

"Our first ever survey of national attitudes towards Khan’s Conservative rival, Susan Hall, shows that she is poorly recognised in the wider country. Almost eight in ten Britons (79%) say they don’t know about Susan Hall, while 5% have a positive opinion and 16 a negative one"

"Even among those few 2019 Conservative voters who have heard of Hall, they are more likely to have a negative opinion of her (12%) rather than a positive one (6%)"

Source: https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/48984-politicians-favourability-ratings-march-2024

So "vagina haver" is bullshit but your earlier reference to "penis wielders" is OK?

How about joining Labour and changing it from within? Yes, if you were caught being part of an entryist organisation within Labour you’d probably be expelled, but so what?

Can't agree more than 100% but if I could, I would. 10000000% this.

Only if it was a rival political party. There's absolutely nothing wrong with joining a political party and trying to influence it from within. That's the way change happens.

The Tories are in power right now and are doing sweet f.a. about it so whats your point, really? 🙄

This with bells on.

Glad to hear you have wonderful people like this in your life ❤

It's a fair point - but voting for them just because of their gender would've been incredibly counter-productive.

Not only did none of them do anything for women, those three were (in order) largely abhorrent, completely inept and catastrophically unintelligent.

They didn't exactly do a lot for the cause, to say the least.

There was a noticeable rightwards drift though, which is only to be expected if feminist orgs and individuals are allying with the fundamentalist right wing Christian organisations. As a socialist feminist myself, this was an absolutely massive turn-off for me.

I think feminism is inherently left wing and you can't be right wing and a (true) feminist - but that's another thread for another day...