to close Baby & Toddler group due to one 'mum' with a fake bump?

[HeyJugee]

I ran into a friend who runs a baby & toddler group this week and am still thinking about her dilemma. Had no good advice at the time but now I can't sleep I can't stop thinking about it so am parking here.

After Christmas a new person started coming along to the B&T group with their DGD - this person dresses as a woman (no wig but bald on top and grown out long hair and bright lipstick) and has given a woman's name.

Other mums stopped coming along so numbers were down quite a lot almost immediately - since then a few new mums have come but no one new has come back the next week. My friend was thinking ok well the DGD will age out of the group soon naturally but last week it was her, her niece (helping out during half term) another helper friend/mum and this grandparent and his/her DGD.

The grandparent was wearing a fake pregnancy bump and doing a lot of stroking of his/her stomach, telling DGD to be careful of nanny's tummy.

My friend has said this was what she can't continue to run the group for the benefit of one person, can't tell them not to come even if it means no one else will so will just have to stop the group because she is not willing to go along with whatever is going to happen with the fake bump. SHe is worried for the DGD in being involved in this even one day a week (when this person cares for her). She wonders if the parents of the DGD know what goes on and are fine with it

Is she being reasonable or unreasonable in letting the group fold?

And if you think she is being unreasonable what can she do to make other mums comfortable in attending again?

And if you think she is reasonable to stop doing the group, do you think she should be alerting SS with what info she has to DGD or is she just being discriminatory and this is not safeguarding?

(ps. I don't think I would have gone back to the group - as a new mum I would have felt very sharply that I was being mocked by this person but then I had PND; I think what she told me has really disturbed me because if I had not been able to engage with this group my life could have been very different)

Oh get a grip. Weirdo bloke with a fake bump is the one with the problem here, not us.

I agree with the post above: fold the group and restart one aimed at mothers only. Could be from a “supporting new mothers” angle - which wouldn’t be overtly discriminatory. It’s a shame this has had to happen, but you can’t force people to be in the same room and running a group for one person is a lot.

Even if this situation is hypothetical. Things like this can happen because the demands of TRAs have enabled it.

FFS we have people defending this man's actions in this group?

Do you defend his right to behave in this way?

Women only spaces are not unlawful. And they can decide for themselves how they define "woman".

GG and the WI have chosen to include transwomen, but they didn't have to, and you don't either.

Start a new group with a written constitution and rules for membership.

Meh. I don’t imagine anyone in their right mind would think that’s ok tbh. Nor should they be expecting any other human (regardless female/male/parent/anyone) to sit there with that person and be like ‘oh yeah congrats, how far along are you, how are you feeling.’ I would be concerned they are doing this to get access to kids or to satisfy a fetish.

They told us the naked man in the Wi Spa in front of little girls getting his sexual kicks was a women. When we said he wasn’t we were told the story was a lie. When we found out it was true, we were told it’s the law in California. And that we were bigots for not accepting the sexual pervert in women’s places.

Colour me pink if you don’t think men claiming to be woman should be pandered to?

I agree, the AGPs make people feel uncomfortable as they are practising a fetish - it is full on creepy perversion and they get a kick from making people play along in their perversion - it is part of their fetish - and the trans laws protect them and effectively enabke them in sexualy abusing people around them.

Even though it’s a shame, I think maybe making it a female-only group to reduce risk may be the way to go. It’s such a shame to exclude genuine dads but maybe it has to be done.

Troll hunting isn’t allowed, report if you don’t believe it.

This

One giant red flag and still some posters think that kids are acceptable collateral damage here all so we can be inclusive and encourage more men to pick up the parenting slack.

They also told us there were no men in the women's hospital ward where a woman was raped, so it couldn't be true (ie. the woman was a liar) turned out there was a man and she was raped. But these things never happen.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hospital-dismissed-claim-of-rape-by-trans-attacker-bssxvbqch

I suppose you didn’t see the BBC report last week telling us of the benefits of men on massive hormones, plus lactating drugs feeding babies drugged secretions from their chests in order to satisfy the men’s sexual fetish?

@lifeturnsonadime

No point putting a complete hypothetical scenario here that's just not realistic.

I host a baby and toddler group and

1. Half the participants are child minders, grandparents, Nannie's etc
2. There's always 3-4 men as in the dads or grandfathers
3. To help you need a dbs, and to fill in a volunteer form, I can reject people on a hunch because safeguarding trumps everything.

It's just too out there - I have sent people away btw, including women (natal women) trying to bring those super realistic fake doll babies, but baby and toddler groups do not exclude men

That will exclude people who adopt and need support but sure...why do they matter (sarcasm)

Private group by invitation only

Indeed but nothing in the OP suggests this is a women only space, its just a playgroup.

What happens if the next group attracts a creepy woman? Rather than going to the trouble of completely restarting just kick out the weirdo for his behaviour.

This is great.

Are you please able to share what exactly you’ve said to these women with fake babies when you’ve turned them away?

Because you have to unfortunately. He could drag her through the coals for discrimination, go to the papers or to trans groups and insight some sort of war against OPs friend and her business.

Loads of businesses now get targeted by a disgruntled customer posting info online and then the business starts receiving loads of 1 star or negative reviews which damages their Google/Facebook ranking. Seeing hundreds of 1 star reviews (without actually reading into why) would be enough to put new parents off joining.

Basically OPs friend could fold the group due to attendance and set up another as suggested above the thread. Alternatively she could let him trash the business, go down in a ball of flames and be targeting by keyboard warriors whenever she tries again.

BreakingAndBroke

don’t be fucking ridiculous. Women are perfectly capable of identifying fetishist men.

Just posting to say am absorbing advice to pass on but swimming lessons shortly means I will be busy most of morning(and for troll hunters note I am a NC my eldest is 15 so my intro to MN was during the days of iCod) but I have already responded with what I can think of to say to friend that might be helpful

the DGD - yes I think needs to be reported to SS but if mum of DGD knows grandparent is transitioning it is going to come across as malicious that is what friend was concerned about. However in my head I am now wondering if the DGD is even a girl ?

I’d be inclined to have some bug burly men there and stop him at the door and make it clear he’s not to come back.

im just not sure if any of it would backfire on the child who comes with him.

very worrying behaviour indeed.

its absolutely enraging that it means the group has to close for everyone though

So no-one ever posts for the first time, perhaps thinking “I know, MN might be a good place to ask that”?

If, with your superior sleuthing skills, you think the OP isn’t genuine, feel free to report it to MN. Troll hunting isn’t permitted.

@mitogoshi what do you say to women who bring fake babies to prevent them joining please? Without hurting their feelings or just straight you don’t have children ? Any pushback?

How do you bring a fake baby?