to close Baby & Toddler group due to one 'mum' with a fake bump?

[HeyJugee]

I ran into a friend who runs a baby & toddler group this week and am still thinking about her dilemma. Had no good advice at the time but now I can't sleep I can't stop thinking about it so am parking here.

After Christmas a new person started coming along to the B&T group with their DGD - this person dresses as a woman (no wig but bald on top and grown out long hair and bright lipstick) and has given a woman's name.

Other mums stopped coming along so numbers were down quite a lot almost immediately - since then a few new mums have come but no one new has come back the next week. My friend was thinking ok well the DGD will age out of the group soon naturally but last week it was her, her niece (helping out during half term) another helper friend/mum and this grandparent and his/her DGD.

The grandparent was wearing a fake pregnancy bump and doing a lot of stroking of his/her stomach, telling DGD to be careful of nanny's tummy.

My friend has said this was what she can't continue to run the group for the benefit of one person, can't tell them not to come even if it means no one else will so will just have to stop the group because she is not willing to go along with whatever is going to happen with the fake bump. SHe is worried for the DGD in being involved in this even one day a week (when this person cares for her). She wonders if the parents of the DGD know what goes on and are fine with it

Is she being reasonable or unreasonable in letting the group fold?

And if you think she is being unreasonable what can she do to make other mums comfortable in attending again?

And if you think she is reasonable to stop doing the group, do you think she should be alerting SS with what info she has to DGD or is she just being discriminatory and this is not safeguarding?

(ps. I don't think I would have gone back to the group - as a new mum I would have felt very sharply that I was being mocked by this person but then I had PND; I think what she told me has really disturbed me because if I had not been able to engage with this group my life could have been very different)

BreakingandBroke Don't be so ridiculous. Of course the women at the group can tell if it is a man or a woman.

You are so obviously a man who thinks women are stupid. We are not.

Yeah, perhaps, could be, maybe, who knows 🤣

You twat.

Oh @MariaVT65, I’m completely with you, 100%. But as ’trans discrimination’ is now woven into the equality act, it’s for a court to determine if this is discrimination - if Grandfather believed there were grounds for it. I’d hope, and still hold out some hope, that the courts would see clearly this is inappropriate. But would the baby group facilitator want to put herself in this potential situation. It’s very, very sad that this has to be considered, but it’s worth noting that this may be a risk

You can’t see why a balding man with grown out hair and bright lipstick pretending to be pregnant and rubbing a fake pregnancy bump would put off new mums?

Oh dear God there's always one

This!!!!

I've just seen this thread and am utterly shocked that nearly all of the replies just talk about the baby group and how to get this man out.

There is a young vulnerable child with him, goodness knows what she is subjected to - as PP said if she is even his DGD and how this creep is messing with her head... At the very least!
I'd be worried he could be harming/abusing her further, and what kind of parents let him "look after" her???

If I were a mum in that group I wouldn't be just turning round and leaving, I'd be trying befriend him and the child out of concern, to gain more understanding of what's going on - and would be reporting this.

Even more so if I was running the group- your friend has a duty of care towards that child.

All adults are creeped out/sickened by this man but all they think about is leaving or closing the group. Leaving him to it with a vulnerable child, eh?

It sounds horrific.

My first reaction was to wonder why your friend didn't tell him to sling his hook from day one but reading the replies about discrimination etc it's very worrying that your friend could face charges if she's not careful.

I’d be quite happy to be accused of transphobia and go to court if it means protecting young children tbh!

I’m guessing the law states that a man is allowed to claim to a be woman. I’m guessing it doesn’t say it’s acceptable to pretend to be pregnant and make other people go along with it.

Other women aren't there to help men be active parents though, are they? And its a particularly big ask when some men abuse the welcome women have extended. I get that your personal situation is helped by women welcoming men, but I think the entitlement for women to have a group just for mothers overrides that. There are plenty of places where dads are welcome, and if not theres nothing stopping them creating their own groups which they could open to mums if they wanted. Men don't need to be everywhere. Women are entitled to male free spaces.

Where’s the “trans bashing”? Do point it out to us.

Christ can you imagine the therapy that poor kid will need in 15 years. “Yes I was cared for by my grandfather who pretended to be a young pregnant woman and paraded me around toddler groups frightening innocent bystanders”.

Let's face it, it's quite creepy behaviour even if a natal woman did this. If I as a post-menopausal woman pretended to be pregnant and attended a M&B session people would be creeped out.

Unfortunately it's the kind of scenario that TRAs would love to back in a test legal case.

New parents are uncomfortable because someone is faking a pregnancy. What’s your problem?

Dear lord what has the world come to that you are trying to justify a fetish? It’s weird. End of.

What sort of abdominal surgery resilts in a pregnancy bump? Now, I'm not a surgeon, but that's a giant leap in logic!

It's also really fucking insulting to women suffering from hair loss to imply that they look like old men too. Have a word with yourself 🙄

@MariaVT65 it’s kept incredibly vague, there’s no particular list of what constitutes the discrimination, unfortunately.

Oh look another goady MRA

Not your place to welcome her or troll hunt.

No it's just pointing out the horror show that the demands of some trans people has caused women.

Women and children didn't used to have to put up with cross dressing men with fake body parts performing their fetishes at us.

If we say this is not acceptable we are accused of being bigots.

Slow hand clap for progress hey....

Perhaps the fake bump was a game that the dgc wanted to play and nanny was just going along with it?

This is the most pathetic reach I’ve ever seen on here. Listen to yourself for god sake, falling over yourself to make excuses for this man’s fetish, even blaming the little girl.

Good idea. Plus, it allows for genuine single dads, grandfathers etc.

I ran a mothers' and toddlers' group for a few years when my DC were at that stage, so I know how important these groups are for providing company and support for parents of little ones. I made friends there who are still close friends 25 years later. I hope the mums are now meeting elsewhere as having young DC can be a very isolating time, and parent groups can be a lifeline.

This person, and all the others like him, disgust and infuriate me. Pandering to gender ideology has got us here. The TRAs would say this person is a woman if they say they are, and when you believe (or reluctantly accept) that, how much of a stretch is it to say this person is pregnant if they say they are? No doubt this man also identifies as younger than he is if he's a pregnant grandmother.

Once we start denying reality, and legally forcing people to deny reality, then anything goes - social norms collapse, natural instincts (developed over millenia to protect the vulnerable) are denied, boundaries are trampled and the ultimate losers are women and children. But hey, be kind bigots.

I don't know, but maybe the group could rebrand as a post partum support group or breastfeeding group. Shame for any dads who are caring for little ones, but sadly this is where men pushing boundaries has got us.