to close Baby & Toddler group due to one 'mum' with a fake bump?

[HeyJugee]

I ran into a friend who runs a baby & toddler group this week and am still thinking about her dilemma. Had no good advice at the time but now I can't sleep I can't stop thinking about it so am parking here.

After Christmas a new person started coming along to the B&T group with their DGD - this person dresses as a woman (no wig but bald on top and grown out long hair and bright lipstick) and has given a woman's name.

Other mums stopped coming along so numbers were down quite a lot almost immediately - since then a few new mums have come but no one new has come back the next week. My friend was thinking ok well the DGD will age out of the group soon naturally but last week it was her, her niece (helping out during half term) another helper friend/mum and this grandparent and his/her DGD.

The grandparent was wearing a fake pregnancy bump and doing a lot of stroking of his/her stomach, telling DGD to be careful of nanny's tummy.

My friend has said this was what she can't continue to run the group for the benefit of one person, can't tell them not to come even if it means no one else will so will just have to stop the group because she is not willing to go along with whatever is going to happen with the fake bump. SHe is worried for the DGD in being involved in this even one day a week (when this person cares for her). She wonders if the parents of the DGD know what goes on and are fine with it

Is she being reasonable or unreasonable in letting the group fold?

And if you think she is being unreasonable what can she do to make other mums comfortable in attending again?

And if you think she is reasonable to stop doing the group, do you think she should be alerting SS with what info she has to DGD or is she just being discriminatory and this is not safeguarding?

(ps. I don't think I would have gone back to the group - as a new mum I would have felt very sharply that I was being mocked by this person but then I had PND; I think what she told me has really disturbed me because if I had not been able to engage with this group my life could have been very different)

How have we ended up in a world where a balding guy in lipstick (who we daren't admit is a guy) can attend a Mother & Baby group with a child not his own while pretending to be pregnant?

And we all know this is for him an erotic fixation but also cannot say this.

And his attendance forces mothers to self-exclude from a MUCH needed activity.

While at the same time people are complaining about Peppa Pig being a bad influence on our children.

I struggle.

Those groups were so important for my mental health when mine were young and it gives me the rage to think of creeps taking this away from the people that need them.

It is not going to come across as malicious. The issue is not that he presents as "transgender", but that he does not appear mentally well (fake baby bump) to be looking after a child.

Has your friend spoken to him before, noticed anything else concerning in his behaviour or the child's?

She should report anyway, not keep silent with the excuse that SS may not take it seriously. Leave that to them and in the meantime do not close shop, but welcome this man and DGD - ask a few polite, innocent questions, try to learn something about them and his state of mind.

Some women have very realistic dolls that they treat as if they were a real baby. They dress it, bathe it, take it for walks in a pram, take it to baby groups and so on.

I really hate this modern trend of being expected to play along with adults fantasies. It's so inappropriate.

and in the meantime do not close shop, but welcome this man and DGD - ask a few polite, innocent questions, try to learn something about them and his state of mind.

If OP's friend were to follow this advice the man gets pandered to, and loves it, while the women are forced to walk away. Women are not broken men's support humans and they certainly are not required to participate in male fetishes.

Certainly involve SS for the DGD, but I would avoid the layman therapy/ detective work. Leave that to SS as well.

Dad's at toddler groups are ok unless it's a mum only group (which is also absolutely fine, women go through something huge and accessing female only support for that can be necessary!)

Honestly this isn't even about that person, its about the fact someone is pretending to be pregnant! That's absolutely awful and I'd ban them for that alone.

could not of put it better

@HeyJugee why not come outright and just say "when is the baby due?" that might at least embarass him/her/whatever it is enough to not come back or at least to stop using the stupid moonbump! to actually ask them to leave could leave your friend open to trouble and we dont want that

Can this actually be true ? Like really ..if so how is this happening???????

Dad's at toddler groups are ok unless it's a mum only group

This is not the Dad. It would be highly inappropriate for a Dad to do this as well.

why not come outright and just say "when is the baby due?"

That plays into his fetish. He will not be embarrassed at all, indeed he will lap it up.

Am I right to read the OP as saying the person presented as pregnant in later sessions, not from the start? If so, this is called escalation. What is next, I wonder.

Why would an adult do this?

I would definitely be contacting my local council/children centres to ask for advice on how to manage this and also what steps your friend should be taking to ensure all safeguarding calls are made. Your friend should I believe have the child name and DOB.

Am I right to read the OP as saying the person presented as pregnant in later sessions, not from the start? If so, this is called escalation. What is next, I wonder.

My thoughts also went somewhere similar aswell. If he believes he is pregnant, couldn’t he possibly also believe he should have a baby too? There’s no limits when there’s no objective reality.

If it were my group he'd not have crossed the threshold. And if he continued to return I'd call the police with absolutely no hesitation. These fetishists rely on women being too afraid to challenge them. They don't want to share our spaces, they want our services to exclude us.

• services AND spaces.

I agree with this.

Is there local police community support team your friend could speak to?

Call the white coats.

Or "breastfeed" a baby? Gaak

What an odd thing to say about a situation you only have an internet stranger's recollection of what somebody else has told her!

You have neither seen nor heard this person personally so what have your eyes and ears got to do with it?

You’re on the wrong forum then.

Most posts are anecdotal about something someone else has done or said.

Interesting that you haven’t denied it!

Is this the only 'grandparent' who attends the group?
Have others attended in the past?

Can't your friend rebrand it as specifically for parents and their babies/ toddlers?
No reason to exclude men if they're dads.
And foster/adoptive parents could also be welcomed.

Many parents -esp new/young/ first time parents- really benefit from groups like this, and it seems that they don't feel comfortable attending alongside a creepy fetishist.

Grandparents (of whatever gender) do not need a group like this in the same way. If they're choosing to look after their grandchild one day/week, they could just do that, without coming along to this kind of group.

Personally, I'd be contacting local safeguarding services for advice, and passing on details of the DGD. And telling "Nanny" that the group wasn't set up to cater for grandparents, sorry.

Regardless of transitioning it's odd that a granny would be pretending to have a bump.
What age are talking?
It would be very out there to suggest transitioning and dementia but I'd be prepared for it. Then again if this was the case I can't imagine grandparent would be in sole charge of a toddler.
How bizarre.

You have neither seen nor heard this person personally so what have your eyes and ears got to do with it?

Because men never pass as women, despite their conviction that they do.

As its in a church hall... maybe the resident vicar could make an appearance? Have a chat with him. Try and find out about the child's safety and home set up first. If the vicar seems worried then speak to social services.

I used to go to one my friend ran in the local church. The vicar used to pop in every week and say hello.

I'm muslim and used to get on really well with the vicar. She used to come over and have a cup of tea with me and have a good natter. The vicar would probably be the most appropriate to deal with the situation. As they would be seen as an authority figure? Especially as its in their own building?