to close Baby & Toddler group due to one 'mum' with a fake bump?

[HeyJugee]

I ran into a friend who runs a baby & toddler group this week and am still thinking about her dilemma. Had no good advice at the time but now I can't sleep I can't stop thinking about it so am parking here.

After Christmas a new person started coming along to the B&T group with their DGD - this person dresses as a woman (no wig but bald on top and grown out long hair and bright lipstick) and has given a woman's name.

Other mums stopped coming along so numbers were down quite a lot almost immediately - since then a few new mums have come but no one new has come back the next week. My friend was thinking ok well the DGD will age out of the group soon naturally but last week it was her, her niece (helping out during half term) another helper friend/mum and this grandparent and his/her DGD.

The grandparent was wearing a fake pregnancy bump and doing a lot of stroking of his/her stomach, telling DGD to be careful of nanny's tummy.

My friend has said this was what she can't continue to run the group for the benefit of one person, can't tell them not to come even if it means no one else will so will just have to stop the group because she is not willing to go along with whatever is going to happen with the fake bump. SHe is worried for the DGD in being involved in this even one day a week (when this person cares for her). She wonders if the parents of the DGD know what goes on and are fine with it

Is she being reasonable or unreasonable in letting the group fold?

And if you think she is being unreasonable what can she do to make other mums comfortable in attending again?

And if you think she is reasonable to stop doing the group, do you think she should be alerting SS with what info she has to DGD or is she just being discriminatory and this is not safeguarding?

(ps. I don't think I would have gone back to the group - as a new mum I would have felt very sharply that I was being mocked by this person but then I had PND; I think what she told me has really disturbed me because if I had not been able to engage with this group my life could have been very different)

Why do you think this is acceptable behaviour around little children?

This counts as more than ‘a bit odd’

Why is the focus on the group rather than the well being of that toddler. The fake pregnancy etc indicates mental health concerns and as a leader of a children's group your friend needs to report this to social care.

Are you really saying that the OP’s friend can’t distinguish between a woman with hair loss and a man pretending to be a woman?! No trans woman ever passes as a biological female no matter how much they wish to. Also in what world do you live in that a toddler would ask the grown up
responsible for them to wear a fake bump? You are really reaching here.

could she change her booking procedure so it’s booking only? She could then say she’s full to him when he tries to book. And to minimise the risk of it happening again she could offer trial lessons (bookable but maybe discounted) for new joiners? I’m so sorry your friend is going through this. I’ve noticed lots of groups say no walk ins now. Perhaps this is a reason why.

This makes me so sad, years ago, this type of behaviour would have been called out and likely the Grandfather would have been removed from the class. Now, because we are pressured to accept another’s reality (socially and legally in some cases), individuals with quite complex MH disorders are allowed to turn up to a toddler group, with a fake bump - just because they ‘feel’ like it.

If your friend does make it explicitly clear that she doesn’t want him to attend, she will likely be met with legal threats on the grounds of discrimination. And so, I really like the above suggestion that a closed, invite only group sounds like the best way forward.

That poor grandbaby having to miss out is the saddest part of all. But Grandfathers reality is very distorted, and whatever he ‘believes’ is true, is true. That’s a slippery slope and a safeguarding concern around children.

If we want men to take a full and active role in caring for their children, things like toddler groups should be accessible for Dads as well. It is the only way that we are ever going to get any traction true equality for women.

But this person isn’t attending the group as a father, he’s attending pretending to be a woman and pretending to be pregnant. He either has some kind of mental health problem or a fetish. If the latter, he is using the women in the group to feed his fetish and they have not consented to that. I’m not a clinician but I believe that that is a central tenet of paraphilias (Google it because MN often deletes posts which reference one of the specific paraphilias that could apply here).

We need to stop “being kind” and call this out for what it is: creepy unacceptable behaviour that is happening around non-consenting women and children.

Form a new, private group that’s invitation only. If you’re all friends there’s nothing to stop you meeting up as such.

Unfortunately you might still get backlash from this man. I heard of a similar situation where the women started to meet privately at one of their houses. The man (who called himself a woman) called the police and demanded to be let in!

if the whole family seem messed up with gender then i believe it could be a sign of abuse. hillbillys spring to mind. if my nan wore a fake bump and acted strange around us she would be thrown out of the family, as the girl is niece thats also a bit strange were is mom? Social services clearly if this said person was ok then people would still be coming back to group however they must sense stranger danger!

Don’t feed the disingenuous TRA.

What else is he getting away with because women are too afraid of hurting his feelings.

Oh, and I’d absolutely be reporting this man to social services. He is using his grandchild (and is it even his grandchild?) as part of whatever it is that’s wrong with him. What kind of mindfuck is being played on that child that “Grandad” is suddenly “Granny who is having a baby”?!

Urgh. The man's toddler companion is an accessory to his fetish. He is exploiting a child fir sexual gratification. Report.

I see the bloke in question has found the thread.
We know a man is a man. We have eyes and ears.

I would put in a safeguarding as a man wearing a fake pregnancy bump and acting in a delusional manner towards a child is a concern. SS may decide it isn’t an issue, but I would be concerned by the stroking of a fake bump. FWIW I would raise a safeguarding about a woman doing the same thing in charge of a child.

Being trans isn’t an issue - but this sounds like something else. However, it will be difficult to navigate because it is hard to put into words how it is different. Is the group run by a church or charity or anything? Or is there advice available from the LA?

I still don’t agree this couldn’t be classed as discrimination, especially due to the fake baby bump. Inappropriate behaviour is just that even if caused by MH. The group is at risk of being shut down because of this one person. People are allowed to feel safe.

My god. Get rid of the nut job and report!

No

Do any of the mums have a house large enough to invite several mums and babies? That way it is a private get together and not one the man can gatecrash.

It is absolutely appalling that the woman who runs the group cannot just tell him to leave. The world has gone very wrong.

But I agree that the safety of the little girl is important and it needs to be logged with SS.

i’m trying to think of a response to this without getting banned 😂

Unfortunately men who claim to be women are very quick to claim discrimination, and various authorities are equally quick to back them for fear of being seen to be “transphobic” or “unkind”.

Women just get chucked under the bus. We’re expected to budge up and relinquish our rights to be safe in the name of “inclusivity”.

Again, this is why i’ve said from post 1 only to mention the fake bump issue, not the trans factor.

If a biological woman came in with a fake bump, i’d still be concerned.

It's a bl8ke in a fr8ck.

Close the group and reopen by invitation only.

Ask him to leave, domt shut the group down, report to SS.

I would not have come to a group where he was present. And I say this as someome who made a great dad friend at a baby class with my second.

Yea I'm with you on this. Quite a few men came to all my baby groups as well it never seemed to really bother anyone.

Spread the word among the original members to stay in touch, it’s being addressed. Ask them to come back after Easter.

Talk to the man. Find out a bit more about their circumstances.
I don’t think you can assume any threat to the child beyond the currently acceptable requirement to accept men are women. If there is more play acting around the bump that could be safeguarding issue. Ask whether people register to go there- does she have a name address etc.

After a session doing the above, change the age range of the group to focus more on babies. Age his toddler out. Increase the age as needed when it feels safe to do so.