to close Baby & Toddler group due to one 'mum' with a fake bump?

[HeyJugee]

I ran into a friend who runs a baby & toddler group this week and am still thinking about her dilemma. Had no good advice at the time but now I can't sleep I can't stop thinking about it so am parking here.

After Christmas a new person started coming along to the B&T group with their DGD - this person dresses as a woman (no wig but bald on top and grown out long hair and bright lipstick) and has given a woman's name.

Other mums stopped coming along so numbers were down quite a lot almost immediately - since then a few new mums have come but no one new has come back the next week. My friend was thinking ok well the DGD will age out of the group soon naturally but last week it was her, her niece (helping out during half term) another helper friend/mum and this grandparent and his/her DGD.

The grandparent was wearing a fake pregnancy bump and doing a lot of stroking of his/her stomach, telling DGD to be careful of nanny's tummy.

My friend has said this was what she can't continue to run the group for the benefit of one person, can't tell them not to come even if it means no one else will so will just have to stop the group because she is not willing to go along with whatever is going to happen with the fake bump. SHe is worried for the DGD in being involved in this even one day a week (when this person cares for her). She wonders if the parents of the DGD know what goes on and are fine with it

Is she being reasonable or unreasonable in letting the group fold?

And if you think she is being unreasonable what can she do to make other mums comfortable in attending again?

And if you think she is reasonable to stop doing the group, do you think she should be alerting SS with what info she has to DGD or is she just being discriminatory and this is not safeguarding?

(ps. I don't think I would have gone back to the group - as a new mum I would have felt very sharply that I was being mocked by this person but then I had PND; I think what she told me has really disturbed me because if I had not been able to engage with this group my life could have been very different)

I’d ask them to leave. What harm could it do since the group would fold if he keeps coming? No one else would come.
id be worried about that poor little gd. Your friend should make sure she has support on hand in case he takes it badly, but explain this group is for mums and I’m afraid while it’s clear you’d like to be one, that’s not possible and I need to ask you to leave.
then contact everyone else quietly and meet somewhere different next week.

And how do you feel about it @CRAmum ?

It gives me the ick and would put me off going back to this group ever again.

Males went to every toddler group I attended, although very much in a minority. I can't quite see why no one comes any longer, fake pregnancy bump or not. I'd assume if they found him a bit odd they'd just more or less ignore him beyond what manners required.Running a group like that can't really be controlled.

The grandparent has a much clearer case under the equalities act for being asked to leave.

I have no issues whatsoever with dads or grandads going to toddler groups. I encourage it in fact.

A man pretending to be pregnant is not normal and is most likely a perverted sexual fetish and should in no way be around kids.

Wtaf. It horrible ur friend is in this position. He should not be around the kids. U should not have to shut down. It will be a lifeline gor some people. Seek legal advice

I have a "hand that rocks the cradle" vibes on this.

You can’t understand why no one wants to hang out with a guy wearing lipstick and a fake pregnancy stomach at a baby group?
Really?

Your poor friend is basically being held to ransom and in this new woke world there’s nothing she can do without looking like a bigot.

What a sad world now where we cant tell a creepy old bastard to do one.

Looks like men have found yet another loop hole in controlling us…by pretending to be women…

Of course she can

How do you know they aren't coming back due to this specific person? Perhaps some have gone back to work? Perhaps it is out of budget for some due to col? Perhaps the group has changed or just isn't very good anymore?

Without being there to see it for yourself, how do you know your friend's assumptions are correct?

Perhaps the fake bump was a game that the dgc wanted to play and nanny was just going along with it?

Perhaps nanny has just had an operation and the fake bump is a bandaged wound that nanny was telling the dgc to be careful of.

Also, balding on top doesn't mean male - could be alopecia or chemo drugs or something else entirely.

As someone who also helps run a baby toddler group, before your friend shuts the group down, she should engage this individual in conversation. She needs to establish if this person is competent enough to be caring for a small child. If he is stroking his belly to imply he is pregnant, he has some mental health issues and the welfare of the child could be at risk.
She should establish why the child's mother is not bringing the child as it is a mother and baby/toddler group.
If anything he says raises concerns she should get an address, this is easy as all you say is they need to get him to do is complete a health and safety allergy form, (some children have airborne allergies you need to be aware of when running these groups) and then report him to SS. They will take note and you never know, they may already be involved. If the man is simply a freak of nature then she should politely tell him that this is a mother and baby group so unless the child is coming with the mother, unfortunately he won't be able to attend.
And carry the group on for the other mothers.

Well isn't he a peach?

He's clearly acting out his fetish on mothers and their toddlers. Bet he loves using the women's toilets too.

This is a great example of how the TRAs have done a job on us. We've got people saying your friend can't act for fear of breaching the Equality Act. In years gone by this man wouldn't have been emboldened to act in this way. Now we have the BBC doing articles on men's 'breast milk' being a thing and this is where it leads us!

Unfortunately I do think your friend needs to tread carefully.

These fucking males have no limits to the way in which they want to make women uncomfortable. And society has enabled it by insisting we are 'kind' to people who say they are something they are not.

Those fathers were not pretending to be pregnant. Nor were they attending in order to carry out a sexual fetish. And getting sexual kicks from attending. This man who in my view is a pervert is seeking validation as a woman, knowing full well the other women have to pretend he is actually pregnant.

This is not someone being a bit odd. I’m surprised you think this is all it is. Why do you think all the mothers stopped coming?

Are you really prepared to put up with a stranger who wants you to validate his sexual fetishism, for his sexual excitement?

I don’t think the OP is as much concerned about the male identifying as female, more the fake pregnancy aspect. It’s clearly a man with a fetish. So the exclusion would be based on that as opposed to his actual sex. Would you be happy with someone parading his fetish in front of your toddler???
Id be looking at leaving out some Sex Matters flyers for the group!

He's using the group - the mothers and toddlers - to validate and feed his sexual fetish. I think the best option would be as described above, close the group and then set up another by invitation only. If you ask on the Feminism board, or ask MN to move the thread there, I'm sure someone will have experience and advice for this situation.

Could you close the group down until the granddaughter ages out and then reopen in as he won’t be able to attend with an “unborn baby” and won’t be able to produce a baby to bring in a few months? Unless his daughter is pregnant and he intends to try to pass the new baby off as his own which is just gross 🤢.

Mumsnet is the only place we can call this shit out and say this is a man occupying women’s spaces with his obvious fetish

Imagine this happening even 10 years ago. It wouldn't have been tolerated. Something has gone badly wrong in society that not only are people afraid to say anything but that we have people actively defending males subjecting unwilling women and children to their fetish. It's obviously going to have to take some really public and damaging examples of this for people to wake up and see what is happening and who they are enabling. And it will happen. when people like this feel emboldened, they will escalate their behaviour. At what cost though?

Thanks for replies. From reading through its obvious now that The old mums who stopped are meeting somewhere else already aren’t they? She just needs to see if she can re route new comers to them - church hall was very conveniently close so the women will have to go to ground for a bit/ meet elsewhere. Also I am going to see if I can find her an employment solicitor who does free30 min initial consult - I know it’s not employment but about services provision and how she can refuse ‘service’.

if anyone has watched Beef on Netflix I keep thinking of the personification of Amy’s self loathing as the fake mum - it gave me a real jump scare and to walk into that a few weeks after giving birth (or months for that matter) would have just freaked me out so much

The mental gymnastics some people are capable of is almost impressive.

We don't need to survey the women who have stopped attending the group to have a solid idea as to why. The bloke has invaded women's group, clomped around marking his new territory, and is basically destroying it.

In this Brave New World of ours, where men are whatever they say they are, and women can't speak truth to power, the very presence of a trans identified individual means you must remain silently accepting, or risk being vilified, hunted down, destroyed. And even silent acceptance may not be enough for some people.

This specific group is doomed, I'm afraid. Women will need to meet in secret, by invitation only. So much for inclusion.

Also, unless he or his daughter had their children really young, he clearly doesn’t even have a basic grip of female biology as if he was really a woman, he’d be likely to be post menopausal and therefore unable to be pregnant 🙄. This is even more insulting to women, “I can be a woman and reproduce whenever I like”.

I think the creepy grandad has joined the thread

I wouldn't mention his bump to him, just like I wouldn't mention one of those reborn dolls to someone. As to sexual.fetishes, I don't spend time thinking about what a person at a group is thinking or imagining. OP hasn't mentioned any incidents in particular that might make someone stay away, as I've said if someone was perceived as a bit odd then people would sit in groups elsewhere.