To be angry that Scarlet Blake is being called a woman.

[ArabellaScott]

Scarlet Blake has been found guilty of murder. He also tortured and killed a cat.

He is not a woman.

This shouldn't be reported as a woman's crime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-68360122

You may wish to write to the PCC for Thames Valley over Scarlet Blake being recorded as 'female'.

https://www.thamesvalley-pcc.gov.uk/contact-us/

I could maybe at least understand the "logic" if crimes committed by people with a GRC were recorded under the sex corresponding to the "acquired gender". I'd still think it was plain wrong and bonkers but could at least understand there to be a basis for it.... legal gender/sex (p.s. what a fucking clown show the GRA is when it collideseith reality and other laws!). But self-ID based and no coherence across forces... what a fucking pile.

Oh my giddy aunt I'm raging.

Anyone who is in that area definitely should.

You don't need to be in Thames Valley. They are happy to hear from anyone.

Given that Blake is going to a male prison, this makes absolutely ZERO sense. As ever. Lots of complaints to fire off today.

Yes, I don’t like it either. He isn’t a woman, he’s a bloke and I’m glad he’s been sent to a male prison. He can rot in hell for what he did.

Bear in mind there will now be fuckwits poddling about the prison service and MoJ discussing 'how many women prisoners are held in this male prison?'

NONE you bellends. Not one. Males with interesting identity choices? Yes, very probably.

The very quick response I got from Thames Valley Police was a statement from the Police and Crime Commissioner Matthew Barber, linked to a letter to the Home Sec, saying that the law must be changed to require police to record crime according to sex as well as 'someone' s preferred gender'.
Reading between the lines, I think that the issue for the police is that they currently have to record by 'gender', and as we all know that allows any old shit to be stated because no one knows what gender is meant to mean. (I'm sure when it was first used, it was as a synonym for sex, but of course now it means anything anyone wants it to mean).

Thanks. That's good to know.

Having had activists 'get ahead of the law' by pushing this bullcrap into systems and wrecking them, we're now going to need a few years of the law 'catching up' and putting a stop to it all.

Does this "record by self ID" message come from the College of Policing or similar quango?

@Ereshkigalangcleg
I haven't got the legislation in front of me but the letter to Home Sec states that it's PACE 1984 which sets out the current requirements. There is apparently an Appendix L which defines the process by which an 'individual' s gender' should be recorded.
So the police are following statute. But
I'm assuming that it's the use of the word 'gender' which is the problem.
I suspect that in 1984, the idea was to ensure that detainees were recorded by sex. At some point, 'gender' started to be used. Then all bets were off!

So the police are following statute. But
I'm assuming that it's the use of the word 'gender' which is the problem.
I suspect that in 1984, the idea was to ensure that detainees were recorded by sex. At some point, 'gender' started to be used. Then all bets were off!

Yes, that sounds plausible!

I don't know what part of the Act Appendix L is in but there are several statutory Codes. POLICE AND CRIMINAL EVIDENCE ACT 1984
CODE A
CODE OF PRACTICE FOR THE EXERCISE BY:
POLICE OFFICERS OF STATUTORY POWERS OF STOP
AND SEARCH
POLICE OFFICERS AND POLICE STAFF OF
REQUIREMENTS TO RECORD PUBLIC ENCOUNTERS

This has a section about recording sex, or as the heading has it, Gender:
ANNEX F ESTABLISHING GENDER OF PERSONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF
SEARCHING

Paragraph 3 uses sex and gender:
[In part]:
"Consideration
3. At law, the gender of an individual is their gender as registered at birth unless they possess a gender recognition certificate as issued under section 9 of the Gender Recognition Act 2004, in which case the person’s gender is the acquired gender.
(a) If there is no doubt as to the sex of a person, or there is no reason to suspect
that the person is not the sex that they appear to be, they should be dealt with
as that sex.
(b) A person who possesses a gender recognition certificate must be treated as
their acquired gender.
(c) If the police are not satisfied that the person possesses a gender recognition
certificate and there is doubt as to a person’s gender, the person should be
asked what gender they consider themselves to be. If the person expresses a
preference to be dealt with as a particular gender, they should be asked to sign
the search record, the officer’s notebook or, if applicable, their custody record,
to indicate and confirm their preference. If appropriate, the person should be
treated as being that gender."

[Continues]

NOTE: This version says copyright 2010. They are updated when there's new legislation that PACE applies to or for other changes.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7a3076ed915d6eaf154650/pace-code-a-2011.pdf

I expect the College of Policing is somewhere in the mix.

The police started using 'gender' on forms years ago, to deal with the pea-brains who wrote "yes please" in the box marked 'sex'.

I got a response from the police saying as I was complaining about something I'd read on social media they weren't taking my complaint any further. I'm totally lost as I never referred to social media in my complaint. I've gone back with a link to the Telegraph article, asking if it is accurate. Very odd!

It's probably some copy and paste response they're using for multiple complaints about this issue @LittleCharlotte

Can I ask how you sent your complaint? They seem to have sent me a response based on the fact this isn't something which has happened to me directly.

Yes I think so - they mean that I read about in the news, I think.

Yes I think so - they mean that I read about in the news, I think.

Er... how else are the public supposed to stay informed about anything?

@LittleCharlotte
I just emailed the PCC at Thames valley - the link was put in (by Arabella) above.
I basically stated that 'reports throughout the media are stating that...'

Thanks - I used the same link but went through the complaints channel. I'll try emailing direct.

Little Charlotte, I know the thread has moved on but how can women tell if a trans woman has 'transitioned' or not when it comes to including them in women's single sex spaces?

Most don't have any surgery, indeed as others have stated, it's transphobic to suggest they should apparently.

So isn't it easier to keep spaces single sex and keep all trans women out?

PACE 1984 Part VI Sections 66 and 67 specify Codes of Practice for England and Wales. (Devolved for Scotland and Northern Ireland.)

The Home Office published new and revised PACE codes of practice relating to conduct and procedure.

28 FEB 2024 Police Commissioner Barber for Thames Valley wrote to Home Sec to review Code C Appendix L which sets out how police "should identify and record an individual’s gender."

He asks for police to be required to record birth sex, "as well as someone's preferred gender."
"Home Office policy allows Forces to record birth sex in crime counting rules, but this remains voluntary and therefore does not allow the information to be required from detainees."
https://www.thamesvalley-pcc.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/James-Cleverly-PACE-CODE-C-280224.pdf

Code C ANNEX L [DEC 2023]
ESTABLISHING GENDER OF PERSONS FOR THE PURPOSE OF SEARCHING
AND CERTAIN OTHER PROCEDURE
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6580543083ba38000de1b792/PACE+Code+C+2023.pdf

Begins (para 3):
"In law, the gender (and accordingly the sex) of an individual is their gender as registered at birth unless they have been issued with a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC) under the Gender Recognition Act 2004 (GRA), in which case the person's gender is their acquired gender. This means that if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman and
they must be treated as their acquired gender"

But then we read (para 4):

"(a) The person must not be asked whether they have a GRC (see paragraph 8);"

which is why Commissioner Barber's letter says it will require a change in PACE 1984 because of conflict with disclosure restrictions under GRA.

It is startling to note the use of language and how primacy is given to 'gender': Barber letter frames birth sex as additional information, not the primary thing that it should be, and the wording of the Code Annex L goes further in installing gender as what's registered at birth and implying that sex derives from gender, an inversion which is surely only the case with certificated sex under GRA - an exception, not the general rule. It is as if we've all been dragged in and corralled under the GRA and nothing exists outside it. GRA was never meant to supersede the reality and concept of sex as what we are born with and record in official documents and in general use was it? Yet here we are with the consequences, at least in official Policeland.

There's a great deal more to Annex L which I haven't read - I dread to think what else.

I understand this is an issue that is very close to your hearts, I understand that many of you find the fact that this meatbag is alowed the privalidge of identifing as a Women Galling to say the least but swamping the police with complaints about the issue isnt the way.
Its a matter for Parliament uou should be lobbying your MPs, Not over streched police officers who most probably agree with you but cant say it. Form a collective and speak to your MPs.