To be angry that Scarlet Blake is being called a woman.

[ArabellaScott]

Scarlet Blake has been found guilty of murder. He also tortured and killed a cat.

He is not a woman.

This shouldn't be reported as a woman's crime.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-68360122

The only criteria of being trans is to say you are trans.

Not according to @LittleCharlotte who decides whether people are good and therefore allowed to be trans or bad in which case they are deemed not trans.

I don't think someone who shares one characteristic with someone will necessarily share any other - that's a bit reductive.

What I see is people pretending there is no definition of woman any more to distinguish women from men, which has consequences for single-sex spaces and anything designated as being for one sex or the other (and data based on that distinction).

Either learn to read, or learn to discuss like a grown up. I said quite clearly it was my opinion only, which I am not forcing on anyone. Nor do I disagree with almost everyone on this thread - quite the opposite and I too am sending complaints to the publications listed in the thread. Thank you to whoever provided information on how so to do. As for 'reading and educating myself' - I've spent years doing this. I just happen to believe that trans people exist. But what I don't believe is that their rights should trump those of those who don't transition (I hate the word 'cis' and won't use it). I've never said it should. If you have a penis, you do not get to be in a woman's area. You do not get to be a woman.

It's ironic that I've been banned from the Reddit forum for being transphobic and now I'm apparently championing the "self ID" cause on here. 😆Anyway, OP, no you are not being unreasonable and we must not - and will not - be silenced by those who would like to make out we are. That's my answer to the poll.

It's ironic that I've been banned from the Reddit forum for being transphobic

@LittleCharlotte

I sympathise, the whole site or just one or more subreddits? What did you say? It's happened to me before so I use my Reddit account entirely for lurking!

Sorry meant to quote you.

@LittleCharlotte I'm trying to follow your logic.

Do you believe that good trans women should be allowed to be in single sex spaces for women?

Do you believe that bad trans women are men and should not be in single sex spaces for women?

It was the transgender sub-reddit linked to on this thread. I didn't realise it was a transgender forum to be honest - if I'd known it was I wouldn't have bothered posting there as they're obviously not up for debate! Which is what I posted about - that and them being misogynistic for slagging off Mumsnetters as 'bitter middle-aged women'.

It's my opinion. It doesn't have to make sense to you. It doesn't make any difference to anyone, anyway. 😆I think the toilet thing should be way it has been for decades where people who were transitioning could use the loo they wanted. It's very rare that this happened and nobody really noticed - I certainly didn't. But transitioning is different to "identifying". So no, I don't think you should get to use women's spaces just because of how you identify.

Can you verify your definition of transition vs identify please, LittleCharlotte?

It was the transgender sub-reddit linked to on this thread. I didn't realise it was a transgender forum to be honest - if I'd known it was I wouldn't have bothered posting there as they're obviously not up for debate! Which is what I posted about - that and them being misogynistic for slagging off Mumsnetters as 'bitter middle-aged women'.

Ah, I can understand! I've got some TRA posts deleted on other trans focussed subreddits for threatening violence to JK Rowling, i just lurk.

And to Rosie Duffield, on the awful Labour one.

Yes. I think that past ‘politeness’ where women and girls were simply told that these male people were coming in is well and truly over. It was never asked of us, just forced in the first place. And now that it is certainly not ‘just a few’ and is open to anyone who just identifies, then it will never be ok again.

The numbers are increasing. As too are the images and videos and written ‘threats’ from these males gleefully telling us all that they are coming in regardless.

Either learn to read, or learn to discuss like a grown up. I said quite clearly it was my opinion only, which I am not forcing on anyone.

That's quite a bizarre response.

I think @LittleCharlotte is allowed to state her point of view, I don't think it's particularly outrageous.

I don't really understand how transitioning is different from identifying though, - is this coming from the old assumption that a trans person is someone who wants to be the opposite sex, because I think most people still think this? So transitioning is something about changing your physical appearance to be like the opposite sex, rather than gender per se?

I think @LittleCharlotte is allowed to state her point of view, I don't think it's particularly outrageous.

Well yes, of course.

Everyone is stating their opinion. Here on this talk forum.

Telling a poster that they need to learn to read because ' I said quite clearly it was my opinion only, which I am not forcing on anyone.' is nonsensical.

I don't know what littlecharlotte means by transitioning - and while I understand the impulse to differentiate - it doesn't make any difference to women who will be triggered by a man regardless.

I know someone who was very violently raped and the presence of any man in an intimate space is very difficult for her. 'Transitioning' would make zero difference to that. So I'm not sure why a transitioning man should be prioritised. Surely third spaces are a fairer option for all?

The definition of 'transition' is 'Change from one form, state, style, or place to another.'.

But humans cannot transition between the sexes.

I suppose a man can 'transition' to being a partly unsexed male but he can never 'transition to female'.

(As a chemist, the misappropriation of cis and trans is funny. If we could interconvert between the sexes it'd be syn and anti not cis and trans.)

I think it's nonsensical to get ones knickers in a twist about someone's opinion as if it is some law which they are forcing you to live under. It's not. I clearly said this is just my opinion, and I'm not policing anyone's thoughts - but nobody gets to police mine, either.

But then I think it's equally nonsensical to screech "ghoul" at someone who doesn't believe a rapist with a beard & a penis is a woman so it appears it's impossible to have a calm nuanced discussion about this online. Hence I seldom bother and won't bother on here again nor Reddit! 😆

Third spaces do seem to be the ideal option - but we should still have single sex spaces AS WELL. Loos, prisons, whatevers. I don't like GN loos, etc. and wrote a complaint to a court which had one when I attended a few years ago.

Thank you.

I don't know if that is an "old" way of thinking. The people I know who have transitioned have fully transitioned - the whole, er, nuts and bolts, to put it bluntly (or lack thereof). That to me is transitioning. Identifying is just calling yourself whatever it is and putting no effort into it which is the fashionable way of doing things.

Edited to add: I think most people believe that people who transition do actually go the whole hog. It doesn't appear that many do, nowadays.

Anyway, as I said I'm not going to discuss this further as it achieves nothing - but as I said, reading this thread did give some great links for complaints to the media and that DOES achieve something so thank you for those!

So transitioning is if you want to change sex, and identifying is if you want to change gender? Just trying to understand. (And by "change gender", they mean "realise the gender they always were")

You can't change sex, ever. But - as far as I understood it, anyway - transitioning means doing all you could to change your body into that of the opposite sex. Which is a heck of a lot of work and makes me (at least) think that you're serious about it, and must have been very miserable in your previous body to go through such surgery.

Identifying is just saying you're xyz and expecting everyone to go along with it.

No, I don’t. In general, I don’t call males “she”. I value my own right to speak the truth above the feelings of trans people and their families. I may choose, on occasion, to deviate and use preferred pronouns. I probably would to Brianna’s mum. But do I think Brianna was a girl? No, I do not.

For me the correct pronouns are what an individual prefers, be it he/she/they

Does this extend to neopronouns? Should the media have respected Scarlet's cat gender? Scarlet was microchipped and recorded on a pet database - this seems like a serious procedure to 'transition' into his catself.

Which is a heck of a lot of work and makes me (at least) think that you're serious about it, and must have been very miserable in your previous body to go through such surgery.

I used to think this too. That people who would choose to have irreversible surgery on their bodies and take hormones must be absolutely sure that they were making the right decision.

That they would have had counselling and they would know that they could never go back to their natal sex. That they would have been told about all of the side effects and what they would have to do to maintain their new body. Not just the drugs but things like inserting something into the constructed vagina so it does not heal up.

But I don't think that any more.