To wonder why some women Aren’t upset about men being in their safe spaces?

[Lion400]

Why would we make it easier for men to be in our safe spaces? Don’t twist my words. This is not about being anti trans women - this is about men not being in women’s safe spaces. Why should women have to allow men in so as to ‘save their feelings’? What about women’s safety, feelings and wishes?

Given stories such as these - examples only but they quite clearly demonstrate the issue. As if anyone needs this. The stats are easily available.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shana-grice-murder-stalking-police-sussex-a8862611.html?fbclid=IwAR0bJYAs849f0I9VFv7tHw3aguB5C8HZi3yyOMr4LxxIRURs0HBxrc_TxzE

And now the disappointing John Lewis (aka Stonewall) disaster.

https://www.jamesesses.com/p/the-trans-takeover-of-john-lewis

Who puts women first, apart from JKR and friends. It’s a limited list.

Because creating ‘safe spaces’ for women is counter productive.

For you, perhaps. I think you'll find many women disagree

we need to think bigger and identify a right to the WHOLE space to be safe.

If trans identified men are unsafe in male spaces, because of the behaviour of other men, then obviously it needs to be addressed. But why are women are being dragged into it? It's entirely a male problem.

@Remeniss yeah. I’ll respond to you as I did to a previous poster.

Your response is one of two things.
Either your levels of comprehension and analysis are so poor you don’t understand the post at all; or you are purposefully obsfucating. I suspect the latter. I’d rather the latter I suppose, that’s more the expected narrative.

We are not assigned sex at birth. This is typical gender ideology speak.

Our sex is determined at conception and observed/recorded at birth.

Couldn’t care less. If a man wants to attack a woman, they will. They don’t need to put on a wig and a dress to do so. Trans women in the womens bathroom just want to use the bathroom.

It wasn't me. But you are still missing the point. Predators will predate is not a reason to remove basic safeguarding. What people insisting trans identifying males are different and must be allowed are doing is removing the social contract and most mechanisms to remove risk factors.

Yep, they just want to pee…

Do you apply this reasoning to anything else?

If burglars want to break into houses/cars, they will, no need for locks or other security ...

If abusers want to abuse children, they will, no need for DBS checks or safeguarding procedures ...

I mean, really 😵‍💫

So the answer is remove basic safeguarding measures then. Why do people bother locking their doors, having alarms and ring doorbells, if burglers are going to burgle your house anyway 🙄.

@TheKeatingFive beat me to it.

X post

Yes. It is very much ‘1984’ to attempt to have people say otherwise. Scary stuff really.

A few years ago my daughter was in the changing room at the swimming pool, I was there to help her. There were a few teenage girls changing there as well.
An adult man came in to help his young daughter dry up and change, everyone felt uncomfortable, but were so shocked and scared to say something. Teenagers against an adult man.

I told him to go to the men’s changing room, the girls felt all uncomfortable. The guy was just so annoyed, said we shouldn’t moan, he was just there to help his girl. He pissed off after I said I would get some help to get him out of there.

The teenagers and my daughter were glad he was gone. How does one get to the point to think it’s OK to just invade an area for women?

But the issue here was the NHS told this woman it couldn't have happened because there wasn't a man on the ward.

This rape victim was gaslit for months over this issue by the NHS.

https://twitter.com/RupertDarwall/status/1504568369286111234

I have no idea how it has come to pass that women are so happy to put vulnerable and minority women at risk because some men prefer to present as their idea of women?

I mean what is this all about? Is it social conditioning that we must give into the demands of these males even if the logical result is that women will be harmed as a result? Nobody can deny women & children are being harmed by this. You must have your head in the sand if you don't know that harms have occurred as a result of giving in to the demands of these males.

Years ago when the TRAs were starting to make these demands some feminists pointed out the risks of making spaces mixed sex to women. They were told 'it will never happen'.

Then it did.

Here is a thread of all the things that will 'never happen' happening,

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

Now, of course that they are happening, MRAs (because that's what you are if you care more about males who identify as women than the women put at risk by making women's single sex spaces mixed sex) are saying it doesn't happen enough, not enough women and children are harmed.

So how hurt many hurt women is enough?

How many women self excluding from society is enough?

I have no idea how it has come to pass that women are so happy to put vulnerable and minority women at risk because some men prefer to present as their idea of women?

This is what I think has happened ... though perhaps this is wishful thinking as I don't want to believe the world is as misogynistic and uncaring towards vulnerable women as it seems right now.

People were sold and ran with the idea of trans people as the next marginalised community that needed support. They viewed it exactly as the gay rights struggle (just as the TRAs planned) and wanted to do the right thing and be 'progressive'.

But they didn't stop to think about what that meant for wider society, and the impact on women and vulnerable kids in particular. They didn't think to question why a number of very disparate groups were being pulled together under the 'trans' umbrella (genuine dysphorics, gender non conforming kids, vulnerable girls rejecting puberty, males who like dressing as women).

Now that the issues are coming to light, there's serious cognitive dissonance. They don't want to feel they read it wrong and they're fighting against that thought.

Hence arguments like 'well women are going to be raped anyway'. I really hope they don't mean that, they're just trying to square the circle of their initial reaction. Which came from a well meaning place, I'm willing to believe.

Or maybe I'm wrong and people genuinely don't give a shit about the very unfortunate women who are most affected by this.

As sad as this sounds, given the consequences, I really do think for a lot of people, they're not prepared to "lose face" and admit
"Shit, I hadn't thought about that. You might have a point"
I know plenty of people in real life that can never admit they're wrong, despite glaring facts in their face that they are.
I think it's happening here.

The idea of a “safe space” is made up BS anyway to encourage women to exclude trans women. Women have never been safe. Aside from perhaps a refuge but even then it wouldn’t take much for a man to find one and go in/attack.
Women have historically been attacked in toilets, changing rooms, their own homes..
The idea that our “safe spaces” need protecting is shit because they don’t exist. Women - and trans women- have never been safe from men’s violence.

Sorted then. We'll let even more in.
Problem solved. 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻

To be clear I care a lot about vulnerable
women affected by men’s violence. I also care about vulnerable trans women affected by men’s violence. And now I have to worry that trans women just trying to live their lives are going to be at risk from other women now too

They can go in third spaces

Women aren't here to be human shields. We've got enough of our own problems to deal with.

You can let whoever you want in. But the men who attack women in toilets, houses, changing rooms, haven’t been LET in. They don’t need to be. They just go in.
Permission not needed. Pretending to be a women not needed.

The problem is not trans women. The problem is men’s violence. But that’s a much much bigger problem to solve so they’re not going to bother trying. Just blame a minority group instead.

Human shields from whom? Women can’t protect anyone from men.

That’s definitely not the reasoning though. Burglars don’t break in to use the loo.