To wonder why some women Aren’t upset about men being in their safe spaces?

[Lion400]

Why would we make it easier for men to be in our safe spaces? Don’t twist my words. This is not about being anti trans women - this is about men not being in women’s safe spaces. Why should women have to allow men in so as to ‘save their feelings’? What about women’s safety, feelings and wishes?

Given stories such as these - examples only but they quite clearly demonstrate the issue. As if anyone needs this. The stats are easily available.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shana-grice-murder-stalking-police-sussex-a8862611.html?fbclid=IwAR0bJYAs849f0I9VFv7tHw3aguB5C8HZi3yyOMr4LxxIRURs0HBxrc_TxzE

And now the disappointing John Lewis (aka Stonewall) disaster.

https://www.jamesesses.com/p/the-trans-takeover-of-john-lewis

Who puts women first, apart from JKR and friends. It’s a limited list.

Statistically 5 times more likely to be k care rated for predatory sex crime than other male prisoners, actually. And theoretically, yes, any 'gender' can be the risk factor. But 98% + of sex crimes are committed by the male sex, regardless of 'gender'.

@LivelyFinch As someone not threatened by this issue, I just wanted to say that I have been raped and horribly abused and beaten up by men loads of times. I don't equate my experience with trans-women using toilets/changing rooms etc. I disagree with trans women in female sport and refuges of course though. If I had cancer I feel I would not be remotely bothered what gender/sex the surgeons/ nurses were as long as they could do their jobs correctly. It's perfectly fine to say you don't want a man touching your breasts, but for me a doctor is a doctor.

@ShiteRider It's not about everyone using sex based facilities, tho, is it? It's about men, however they identify, using sex based facilities.

I always said I didn't care and wouldn't mind sharing until I opened the toilet door to a 6ft something large man in a wig. Really scared me. He/she didn't do anything but it made me feel frightened and unsafe.

And OP, I think the simple answer is 'cool girl'. If you have an opinion on this which overrides women saying no, for whatever reason, their safety, dignity, privacy, religion, fears or worries about the sex that absolutely commits nearly all sex crime, then you either are so keen to be 'not like other girls' or have no critical thinking ability.

A 20 minute browse on any social media platform proves how prevalent AGP is. A Quick Look at trans crime stats show how many men are using this as an easy prison option, or a way to access more vulnerable females, cheat in sport, enter female refuges. Either way, whether it's a convenient loophole for perverts or the stats showing elevated crime rates are correct; we safeguard against men, because access and opportunity are what increases risk.

@Lion400 I'm with you.
The trans movement has done a proper number on many of these posters.

As far as I can tell everything out of this movement has benefitted men, and seems more MRA

Bring back radical feminism, proper feminism that focuses on the most vulnerable women in society.

Women in prisons, rape crisis centres, DV shelters, women who find themselves in prostitution etc these are the women we focus on.

These women rely on good safeguarding, safeguarding means no male is allowed in our spaces however they identify.

Eroding boundaries for male performance of femininity is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

I think I might get "third spaces" tattooed on my forehead. The answer is so blindingly obvious.

To everyone except the TW themselves who reject that

Eroding boundaries for male performance of femininity is the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

Agreed. Just why? And who exactly do people think benefit from this?

100%.

Very interested to know who’s actively demonstrating and donating to women’s rights charities on this thread or is it all fear mongering & outcry.

To answer the question poised, of course I believe rape crisis centres and women’s aid type charities should have (born physically) women only spaces but also trans women & men need access to support too.

I do not care about changing rooms or toilets. There are cubicles for heavens sake.

None that I know reject it. What’s your source?

None that I know reject it. What’s your source?

Countless threads on twitter. I was once told I was a Nazi 'aparthedist' for advocating it.

As it is such an obvious solution, why isn't it being pursued by the TRA community? Stonewall have lots of money they could be putting behind it. It would get extensive support. So why has that not been the strategy?

Men. Certainly not women and girls.

All of this comes from Queer theory, some of which advocates also for the erosion of other boundaries around children.

It's alarming that people put "be kind" as a priority when we have all the statistics we need to know that men will take advantage of that and any other loophole

@Newlywedish some sports offered neutral categories for example. No one signed up. In gyms where neutral spaces are offered there are cases where the male took the gym to court as they want to use the female space.

Some men will transgress boundaries. This is about their fetish, identity etc and they don't care about how this impacts women and girls.

TW have wanted in ladies loos. That kind of sexual assault (making others see) is also dangerous. My sister was raped by a male in the ladies. He probably wasn't trans but once you make it OK for some males to use them you lose the boundary for all. I.e. if I see a male in the ladies, I get out ASAP. Now I'm being told it will be more commonplace and if I just want to pee, I have to take my chances.

People don’t have to read your thread, they are perfectly capable of scrolling on past

(though that might be a massive assumption of mine 🤔)

in respect of your OP, I don’t have a massive issue with individual toilets or changing rooms, i would if they were communal and repurposed traditional toilets make me very angry. As another poster said i can absolutely see why other women may have a massive issue and i support them

i think some people replying are imagining an individual cubicle which is quite often not the case

i think males should not be in female prisons, sports, refuges etc

like many others in the old days where you might have a transwoman in the loos I didnt have a massive issue (still i support other women who do) but now when any male is allowed in then I do have an issue, our ability to complain about males in our spaces has been eroded

Have you ever been to a Scandinavian country?

Police not acting against stalkers and men who pose a risk to women and girls is down to poor policing and cuts in the funding to things like the justice system and refuges for women fleeing domestic violence.

Well said

I.e. if I see a male in the ladies, I get out ASAP. Now I'm being told it will be more commonplace and if I just want to pee, I have to take my chances.

I've seen posters from US college campuses telling women that to do this (leave facilities if there's a male there) is bigoted and hurtful and they should stay put.

It is absolutely shocking how women are being told to ignore their basic instinct to keep themselves safe.

If you think it's terrible, why are you happy to facilitate it? of course it's awful too when male staff assault women but that doesn't mean we do away with the imperfect protections of DBS checks. Your view will mean more women are attacked.

And also to gender ideology.

*wanked in public loos.

The man who raped me nearly 30 years ago now says he is a transwoman, believe me, you would not want him in the toilets with you…

Which is why JKR has spent millions of her own money setting up female only refuges because victims of rape can't use the underfunded existing refuges because they are letting men in.

I don’t follow?