Husband got Prosecution Notice for 5 and 7 yr old No Seat Belts

[PoppyMK]

My husband received a Notice of Prosecution from the Police because he has apparently been caught driving on the M25 with our two children in the back of the car without seats belts (unclear which child it is, or whether it's both, from the notice).

I am concerned because we are in the process of separating and I want to know exactly what happened so i can make a judgement about whether my children are safe with him. AIBU or overreacting?

I have tried asking him about this - first he claimed he didn't know they had no seat belt on, then he claimed they wouldn't listen to him to stop trying to climb over the back of the seats.

I have no idea how to go about obtaining whatever evidence the Police have - but it would seem to be important that I have access to it as the co-parent of both children?

As an aside, I'm pretty certain he hasn't even responded to the notice by the deadline as I've seen what look like at least two further letters arrive for him, but as that is a problem for him and the consequences of which he will face, which will presumably be automatic points on his licence in addition to those he'll already get for the actual offence.

Maybe move this to the Legal section OP, if you want advice. Otherwise, IMO YANBU.

Did you open his mail?

The police won't show you the footage

They wouldn't be going anywhere near his car if they were my children

@GirrlCrush no, I didn't open his mail - I arrived home after he'd just opened the first notice and the house was in uproar because he'd been yelling at the children about how it was their fault.

Since then we haven't discussed it.

Because that's whats important here!

"I have tried asking him about this - first he claimed he didn't know they had no seat belt on, then he claimed they wouldn't listen to him to stop trying to climb over the back of the seats."

Do you believe this? It sounds possible. I'm just thinking that if you try to stop him having the kids on that basis he is just going to say what he said to you. I don't think you'd have a case.

How are they with you? Do they do that with you in the car?

He was blaming it on the children? Wow. No, you are absolutely not over-reacting. Bloody hell.

You don't really need the details. Its factual that he is being prosecuted because he had children in the car with no seat belts. I'm not sure there is anymore information that you need?

The fine is your evidence that:

• The kids were travelling his car without seatbelts.
• On the motorway.
• This time he got caught.
• the police can prove it

I'm not sure why you need anything else.

If they were climbing about, and clearly unbelted, he should have pulled over and refused to move until they put their belts on. He should not have moved off at the start of the journey until he was sure of that.

NO seat belts on a MOTORWAY?

Unbelievable.

He endangered their lives.

If he does that what else does he do with them?

It is an absolute non-negotiable.

What a prick.

What more information do you need?

The police must have enough to demonstrate it is in the public interest to prosecute. If the kids undid their belt and he pulled over at a safe opportunity, they would not prosecute.

What more are you looking for?

The problem is we don't know what happened. If he set off and they weren't belted in securely then yanbu to think he's irresponsible but if the child/ren took them off mid-journey then I do think it's less clear cut depending on the circumstances.

If the OPs Ex was already on the motorway and one or both of the children unclipped themselves from their seats what is he supposed to do if he's nowhere near an exit/services to get off the motorway?

Especially by age 5&7 the children are more than old enough to know they don't take their seatbelts off during the journey, so why did they not have them on? Only the OP knows if her kids are the kind who will ninja out of car seats regardless of how securely you think they're fastened in - my DD never tried to get out of car seats/seatbelts/pram straps etc but my nephew is a ninja and you fasten him in securely, get in the car, set off and next thing he's waving his arms about and/or is out of his seat, but he's only 18mo so he isn't old enough to reason with whereas by 5/7 they are old enough to know the consequences of taking off their belt.

Plus his reaction says everything to me. If they had been undoing their seatbelts and climbing all over the place, surely he would have told you straight away, rather than initially lying about it. The fact that his first reaction was to lie and say he didn't know they weren't wearing them, and that his second was to yell at the kids, because it was their fault. That should tell you everything you need to know. I'm so sorry you are dealing with this - it's such a difficult situation.

Contact social services and ask for their input. Tell them you are concerned for your children's safety in light of this and would like their help.

I agree with the sentiment that he's an idiot. But no court in the land is going to remove his parental rights because of this single incident - and you cannot refuse to allow him to have the children based on your "judgement" or else you will also be in court.

Social services are overwhelmed with cases of abuse and neglect, and you think they have time to referee over who did or diid not put on a seatbelt? They are not a mediation service.

He lied initially.

The Police don't prosecute people who clearly have a naughty child and then deal with it.

So was he actually pulled over by the police?
I'd be bloody raging!

7 and 5 year olds are plenty old enough to keep their seatbelts on. If kids that age are taking them off, it is absolutely fine to pull over and give them a stern warning and insist they wear them. If you pull back on the motorway and they keep unbuckling, I guess at some point you have to drive home. At that point you both have a parenting issue if your kids wont'keep their belts on and dont' listen to being told to do so.

Which is a different issue from him not expecting them to buckle or not taking their unbuckling seriously. The kids are old enough to also give you a version of events. Does dad expect them to put their seatbelt on in the car? Does he get upset if they take it off?

I think whilst likely his fault. You need to tell the kids off too. At that age they know to put epseat belts on. At 7 she can probably do this herself.
And they should not be removing them. Imagibe if it were a rollercoaster!
Also at 7 unless the seats that clip to the car ? The car seat isnt attsched to the car if not done up

Im not sure if its legal to pull over on motorway hardshoulder for this though?

my nephew is a ninja and you fasten him in securely, get in the car, set off and next thing he's waving his arms about and/or is out of his seat.

I'd question the quality/safety of the car seat if an 18 month old can undo the 5 point harness, those things are tight for an adult to undo. You aren't meant to add anything to a car seat that didn't come with it, but if he can escape from it, then clips that go across the straps would be a no brainer.

This is horrific! A 5yo girl was killed in a one-vehicle collision near us, on a 40mph road. I don't know the particulars about seats/ belts, but that gives an idea of how dangerous it is. At ages 5 and 7 they should still be in car seats (ideally rear facing for the 5yo), never mind not wearing seatbelts! Does "no seatbelts" literally mean that they were completely unrestrained (no seats or belts), or could they have been in seats, but not strapped in? It's both dangerous, but I'd be even more enraged if he knowingly took them in the car without car seats. And he's a complete twat for blaming them, what a man child! I'm sorry you're dealing with this OP!