Husband got Prosecution Notice for 5 and 7 yr old No Seat Belts

[PoppyMK]

My husband received a Notice of Prosecution from the Police because he has apparently been caught driving on the M25 with our two children in the back of the car without seats belts (unclear which child it is, or whether it's both, from the notice).

I am concerned because we are in the process of separating and I want to know exactly what happened so i can make a judgement about whether my children are safe with him. AIBU or overreacting?

I have tried asking him about this - first he claimed he didn't know they had no seat belt on, then he claimed they wouldn't listen to him to stop trying to climb over the back of the seats.

I have no idea how to go about obtaining whatever evidence the Police have - but it would seem to be important that I have access to it as the co-parent of both children?

As an aside, I'm pretty certain he hasn't even responded to the notice by the deadline as I've seen what look like at least two further letters arrive for him, but as that is a problem for him and the consequences of which he will face, which will presumably be automatic points on his licence in addition to those he'll already get for the actual offence.

In fairness, I wouldn't stop on a hard shoulder for this reason, I wouldn't stop on a hard should for ANY reason other than a breakdown, or being pulled over, I'd drop speed, get in the slow lane and carry on to the next junction. You're more likely to be killed on a hard shoulder then driving along normally. ESPECIALLY on a stupid "smart" motorway.

And if the kids weren't wearing seatbelts and you got rear ended on the hard shoulder, it doesn't bare thinking about.

If he forgot to put the seat belts on, it's one thing. If your (plural) kids are badly behaved in the car and they took them off and started arsing about despite being told not to when he was driving on a busy motorway, some serious discipline needs agreeing on, and I would not be using this as a weapon against him.

The problem is we don't know what happened. If he set off and they weren't belted in securely then yanbu to think he's irresponsible but if the child/ren took them off mid-journey then I do think it's less clear cut depending on the circumstances.
I’d agree with this, the age they’re at there it is possible they unbelted themselves- one did it the other followed. I suppose op it depends what you think of him as a dad in general outside of the fact you’re breaking up right now, no matter what happened I’d trust dh with my kids’ lives.

Stopping on the Hard Shoulder is an incredibly dangerous thing to do and should only be done in an absolute emergency.

A 5 and/or 7 year old unbuckling their seatbelts is dangerous but is not an absolute emergency so my advice would always be for the driver to instruct the children to sit in their seats, move to the left hand lane and drive as safely as possible to the nearest exit/layby/services.

The only time I would stop the car on the hard shoulder in these circumstances would be if the child was doing something dangerous (eg messing with the door handle/windows) and/or was not old enough to understand the seriousness of the situation but even then it would depend on how far the nearest exit was.

You can’t get details unless he provides them. You can however turn up and hear first hand. You can search for the hearing via the link below.
https://www.courtserve.net/

He will likely be given a small (band A) fine for one of the failure to wear a seatbelt or even get a conditional discharge.

It's his fault they had no seatbelts on and you are right to be concerned.

What a shit dad.

Hope he gets the most severe penalty. The M25 is dangerous with a belt. Had someone rear ended him, the children would be through the windscreen. Ridiculous parenting on his part.

Hope you get full custody OP.

I agree with this.

It doesn't matter what seat it is, he manages to wriggle out eventually, we've tried loads, but we now have various clips/gloves/covers etc to stop him getting out of the harness but it took a while for the entire family to believe my DB when he said you have to strap him in as tight as possible because otherwise he will escape in seconds ... And it took them until they took him out and saw first hand just how slippery he was for them to realise my DB was being deadly serious and not just exaggerating for effect.

He’s the driver, he’s the adult, they’re children. In law he’s 100% responsible for making sure they were belted into their seats.
If he cannot ensure two children stay in their car seats he shouldn’t be driving them.
And shouting / blaming two children for his negligence? Unforgivable.

A 5 and/or 7 year old unbuckling their seatbelts is dangerous but is not an absolute emergency

I agree that isn't but her husband has said they were climbing over seats. If that was the case I would absolutely stop on the hard shoulder. Seat belts just unbuckled I'd slow down in the inside lane & take the first exit off

My eldest had a short time of climbing out of car seats. I stopped traveling in cars as it scared me so much. We just use public transport or walked. Your husband is knob but you need to chat to your kids urgently as they need to know how dangerous that is.

Reminds me of this:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12084887/amp/Child-rushed-hospital-falling-car-M25-slip-road.html

id be fucking livid with him, what if someone crashed into him at 70+ mph?

I would have been off next junction (stopping on hard shoulder is dangerous).

As another poster insinuated, can you consult with divorce solicitor? It’s endangering their lives?

I completely agree.

He is going to care for them on his own one day and I would be doing everything I can to ensure that the children behave themselves and support any punishment he gives them when they don’t.

They are too old to be so naughty and it’s very concerning that they wouldn’t do what they were told in such a dangerous situation.

This is something OP and DH need to be on the same page about.

And I feel for you OP, what a horrible situation.

At the ages of 5 & 7 I’d be ensuring they’re safely strapped into car seats, definitely wouldn’t be allowing them in normal seatbelts

https://www.autisticparentsuk.org/

@PoppyMK I agree with the majority of the pp...his behaviour in regards to allowing DC to be climbing about whilst on the motorway (or any road,for that matter) is not on. He will be punished for that, and thank goodness he was stopped and cited by the police so his lack of control of the DC has come to light.
You mentioned that he has poor parenting skills and that you suspect he's on the spectrum. It sounds as if (especially in light of your separation) that he needs help with this. Ive attached a link for autistic parents in the UK...they should have some parenting classes or should be able to guide him to a place that offers them.

He is responsible for them in the car - so the police picking this up are absolutely right.

For the future safety of the children, you and he need to be a team on this matter. They need to understand that they keep the seatbelts on no matter who is driving.

But that story just doesn't work. Any parent with half an ounce of sense knows that if children won't put their seat belts on, the answer is that the car doesn't move till they do.

Have you tried any of the no-escape systems referred to here - https://www.childcarseats.org.uk/media/1024/carrying-children-with-additional-needs-guide.pdf ?

Why do you need to see the footage?? (even if they police would indulge you with this, which they won't).
He's being prosecuted and he hasn't denied it happened 🤷🏻‍♀️

This something ehich the court will wang to know about when awarding custody. You also need to mention his reaction.

5 and 7 is very young but your STBXH should be aware of what is going on in his car., eg they wouldn't have stayed in their seats. As the adult he has responsibility for their safety.

Stopping on the Hard Shoulder is an incredibly dangerous thing to do and should only be done in an absolute emergency.

@melj1213 So is driving with 2 kids not using seat belts, on a motorway.

Do you ever drive on motorways?

People stop on the hard shoulder to change a tyre, if their child is being sick, or even less than that.

It's VERY dangerous to have 2 children loose in the back of a car.
One sharp emergency stop for any reason and they could be out of the window, or brain damaged/dead from hitting their heads on the seat in front.

It's also illegal not to be strapped in.

Is that enough reason for you?

I would take it as evidence that he cannot be trusted to keep them safe and therefore needs supervised contact. I would also expect him to complete a parenting course before going unsupervised.

The could literally have died.

At best he risked their actual lives because he cannot competently parent them. Hence parenting course and supervised access.

I wouldnt even ask for his version.

What can he tell you that will make it ok? He certainly didnt have a reason that satisfied the authorities.

Nothing. He will minimise it as much as possible.