Page 6 | Husband got Prosecution Notice for 5 and 7 yr old No Seat Belts

PoppyMK · 2023-11-03T13:49:14+00:00

My husband received a Notice of Prosecution from the Police because he has apparently been caught driving on the M25 with our two children in the back of the car without seats belts (unclear which child it is, or whether it's both, from the notice). I am concerned because we are in the process of separating and I want to know exactly what happened so i can make a judgement about whether my children are safe with him. AIBU or overreacting? I have tried asking him about this - first he claimed he didn't know they had no seat belt on, then he claimed they wouldn't listen to him to stop trying to climb over the back of the seats. I have no idea how to go about obtaining whatever evidence the Police have - but it would seem to be important that I have access to it as the co-parent of both children? As an aside, I'm pretty certain he hasn't even responded to the notice by the deadline as I've seen what look like at least two further letters arrive for him, but as that is a problem for him and the consequences of which he will face, which will presumably be automatic points on his licence in addition to those he'll already get for the actual offence.

Soontobe60 · 03/11/2023 20:33

PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:42

@sandyhappypeople yes they have car seats, clearly they have taken off the seatbelts at some point and clambered out of the car seats.

If they did this with you, what would you do?

Soontobe60 · 03/11/2023 20:36

Londonlondon4 · 03/11/2023 18:50

That is also concerning and needs to be officially documented.

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If they took the seatbelts off and tried to climb over the seat, that IS their fault. Do you subscribe to gentle parenting where you’d tickle them with a furry snuggle blanket to make sure they don’t do it again? Or, like the rest of us, do you raise your voice to show just how dangerous their actions were?

Unexpectedlysinglemum · 03/11/2023 21:03

The thing is, whether it's naughty kids and they didn't listen, or dad forgot, the fact is the kids weren't safe and without judging him
He objectively wasn't able to keep them safe

sandyhappypeople · 03/11/2023 21:05

ThePeachIsSoUnusual · 03/11/2023 20:26

I hear what you are saying about a 'smart' motorway - they are very dangerous and it's hard to know what to do for the best on them. However, more generally with a hard shoulder, this: I wouldn't stop on a hard shoulder for this reason is misguided. I've for a non-breakdown issue that really required to stop. It's the right thing to do. It's much more dangerous to continue with loose children and a distracted driver trying to monitor what they are doing and get them to behave.

I’d say it’s a judgement call only the driver can make at the time, I wouldn’t stop on a hard shoulder for anything unless I was breaking down or have been pulled over. and I wouldn’t blame anyone else for not pulling over either, it really isn’t safe.. there’s a reason you are advised to abandon the vehicle if you come to a stop on the hard shoulder.

I WOULD however get off at the nearest junction to deal with them.

Unbiased111 · 04/11/2023 17:58

Agree kids should of been belted and we don't know the circumstances. I've just read inform social services. This is a big deal, but would you be posting on here if you wasn't splitting up? Is this just another weapon to stop him seeing the kids

Henryhover · 04/11/2023 18:10

He's blaming the kids? Just aswell you're having a divorce.
Drivers responsibility especially with children in the car!! If they took it off he should of pulled over at the neatest service station.
My car doesn't move until everyone's belts is on

Zerosleep · 04/11/2023 18:29

I think this is enough evidence they clearly aren’t safe with him. How hugely irresponsible, if they had been in an accident, they wouldn’t have survived. I have no sympathy at all for him. So dangerous it’s untrue.

Twentyfirstcenturymumma · 04/11/2023 18:31

JaxiiTaxii · 03/11/2023 14:09

The fine is your evidence that:

The kids were travelling his car without seatbelts.
On the motorway.
This time he got caught.
the police can prove it

I'm not sure why you need anything else.

This. If they were my kids they would not be allowed to travel with him driving

Plunger · 04/11/2023 18:37

My grandchildren used to undo their seatbelts until they found out that a warning sounded in my car so were found out! I would stop when safe to do so but not sure this would be a valid reason on a motorway. Is it more dangerous carrying on to a junction/sevice station or stopping on the hard shoulder especially on so called smart motorways? The hard shoulder or refuge the most dangerous place to stop. Their parents vehicle doesn't warn nor does my partner's.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 04/11/2023 18:47

ThePeachIsSoUnusual · 03/11/2023 20:26

I hear what you are saying about a 'smart' motorway - they are very dangerous and it's hard to know what to do for the best on them. However, more generally with a hard shoulder, this: I wouldn't stop on a hard shoulder for this reason is misguided. I've for a non-breakdown issue that really required to stop. It's the right thing to do. It's much more dangerous to continue with loose children and a distracted driver trying to monitor what they are doing and get them to behave.

I totally disagree - hard shoulders are dangerous. Paradoxically a refuge bay on a smart motorway might be safer as it is slightly protected compared with the hard shoulder. Too many lorry drivers in particular plough into the back of people on hard shoulders. And there aren't many service areas on the M25 either. But there are quite a few junctions, depending on where you are, so it might be possible to come off the motorway quickly.

I wish the police were so keen to deal with other forms of dangerous driving on the M25, or indeed on the roads in general.

WrongSwanson · 04/11/2023 18:48

Twentyfirstcenturymumma · 04/11/2023 18:31

This. If they were my kids they would not be allowed to travel with him driving

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Unfortunately this isn't entirely within ops control and it's not fair to judge her.

She can ask, and she can express concern but she needs to approach the subject with legal advice ideally as the family courts set a very low bar for dads.

(My son disclosed his dad put his life in grave danger in a very calculated and premeditated way but cafcass met him for 20 minutes over cup of tea and concluded dad was a "lovely man")

IncreasinglyGrumpy · 04/11/2023 18:59

Phone the police that the offense took place in and ask them what the situation is. As their parent im sure they will give you information, if not I'm sure if you are separating and solicitors might get involved they will gain access.
I'd be livid if it was me. I've been involved in two recent shunts and it makes you realise just how quickly your life can change - he was lucky nothing happened.

Lindyloomillion1 · 04/11/2023 19:00

I can see why you are concerned. But don't try to stop him having his kids based on this one incident.
When I was a kid we didn't wear seatbelts. There weren't any. In fact my sister and I were driven across Europe for a holiday in the back of an A40 van where there no seats either.
Just giving a bit of context. Much better safety now which is good but your kids need a less than perfect dad more than none. You can work out the conditions.

Mumof3confused · 04/11/2023 19:05

Does he blame other personal failures on the children, too? Perhaps this is a good reminder to him that his responsibility as a parent are his, and not the children’s. I would not allow him to take the kids in the car again. I would not expect or need any other evidence.

Blueink · 04/11/2023 19:06

Soontobe60 · 03/11/2023 20:36

If they took the seatbelts off and tried to climb over the seat, that IS their fault. Do you subscribe to gentle parenting where you’d tickle them with a furry snuggle blanket to make sure they don’t do it again? Or, like the rest of us, do you raise your voice to show just how dangerous their actions were?

Show quote history

It was his responsibility as the driver and as a parent to take decisive action at the time to ensure their safety, not blame them afterwards because he got caught.

LizzBurg · 04/11/2023 19:13

IncreasinglyGrumpy · 04/11/2023 18:59

Phone the police that the offense took place in and ask them what the situation is. As their parent im sure they will give you information, if not I'm sure if you are separating and solicitors might get involved they will gain access.
I'd be livid if it was me. I've been involved in two recent shunts and it makes you realise just how quickly your life can change - he was lucky nothing happened.

They will not give her any information. Even if he wasn’t the parent and he had been driving someone else’s children they wouldn’t give the child’s parent any information because he is potentially being prosecuted about the lack of a seatbelt. Nothing happened to them, they weren’t injured or anything so it’s nothing to do with anyone except the police and the driver. If the officer felt that the children were at risk they will complete a Public Protection Notice recording any safeguarding concerns, the OP would be made aware of that.

DoughBallss · 04/11/2023 19:57

Please point him in the direction of seat belt safety clips, kids taking their seat belts off is a common problem so of course there are extra safety bits on the market to prevent this!

Absolutely not acceptable especially on the motorway

jrc1071 · 04/11/2023 20:05

They are not safe with him. You can’t do anything until you go to court. Ask your attorney. Why in the hell did he not have them in car seats? Are they not required by law in the UK at their age?

AuntMarch · 04/11/2023 20:16

If my child kept took his seat belt off and refused to put it back on, I'd be making sure I spoke to his dad about it before he next had him in the car so he would be prepared/have the chat before setting off. If I'd been pulled over for it I'd probably have had a cry on the phone about it to be honest too.
I can't see why, if it he had been trying to do the right thing, he wouldn't have told you way before the letter came.

VintageTuppence · 04/11/2023 20:17

JaxiiTaxii · 03/11/2023 14:58

My 7yo gets in the car and does up his seatbelt. My kids have worn a belt every car ride, every day of their lives, it's as automatic as putting mine on.

If kids are free range in the back of a car, it's either because:
there's no car seat/booster/belt
it's not consistently enforced by the responsible adult; or
there's behavioural factors (i.e. kids aren't NT) in the mix.

If OP knows it's not factor 3, it's 100% the Dads fault.

With separating parents the children could be acting out too especially if they feel their loyalties torn.

Viviennemary · 04/11/2023 20:19

Nobody knows what happened. Drjving with a pair of disobedient naughty children isn't exactly easy. I doubt he said to them right kids take off your seatbelts no need to wear them.

WrongSwanson · 04/11/2023 20:21

jrc1071 · 04/11/2023 20:05

They are not safe with him. You can’t do anything until you go to court. Ask your attorney. Why in the hell did he not have them in car seats? Are they not required by law in the UK at their age?

The police would have made a social services referral themselves if they felt it appropriate

Agree Op needs legal advice though

I would be just as cross as op but we need to be realistic about the legal system

Coco1379 · 04/11/2023 20:41

How could your husband possibly concentrate if the children were climbing over the seats. Do they have proper seats appropriate to their age? My DGCs are 7 & 10 and are still strapped into their car seats. It’s certain that if there had been an accident your children would have been at the least badly injured, if not killed. I would contact the relevant police force and tell them of the problem and ask their advice. I’d also be very reluctant to let your husband to take them without supervision if he is so lax about their safety.

Vergeofbreakdown23 · 04/11/2023 20:55

The police don't need to tell you anything - you already know!
Whatever the context of how it happened, he is being prosecuted. You don't need to ask anyone anything as you've got all the facts you need.
How you use those facts is up to you moving forward with any custody agreements etc!

Danielle9891 · 04/11/2023 21:04

Did the children say what happened? I'd ask them when did they take the seatbelts off or did dad forget to belt them in. I'd make sure they know how dangerous it is if the car was to crash or even break hard.

As for your ex I really wouldn't let him blame and shout at the children. He should have pulled over as soon as it was safe to do so. It's really scary what could have happened.