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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Husband got Prosecution Notice for 5 and 7 yr old No Seat Belts

213 replies

PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 13:49

My husband received a Notice of Prosecution from the Police because he has apparently been caught driving on the M25 with our two children in the back of the car without seats belts (unclear which child it is, or whether it's both, from the notice).

I am concerned because we are in the process of separating and I want to know exactly what happened so i can make a judgement about whether my children are safe with him. AIBU or overreacting?

I have tried asking him about this - first he claimed he didn't know they had no seat belt on, then he claimed they wouldn't listen to him to stop trying to climb over the back of the seats.

I have no idea how to go about obtaining whatever evidence the Police have - but it would seem to be important that I have access to it as the co-parent of both children?

As an aside, I'm pretty certain he hasn't even responded to the notice by the deadline as I've seen what look like at least two further letters arrive for him, but as that is a problem for him and the consequences of which he will face, which will presumably be automatic points on his licence in addition to those he'll already get for the actual offence.

OP posts:
sandyhappypeople · 03/11/2023 14:39

Do they have car seats/booster seats in his car OP?

TomatoSandwiches · 03/11/2023 14:39

I'd be furious about the no seat belts but the lying and blaming children is absolutely disgusting, how can you trust him again with their safety?

Original poster
PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:41

@Neriah just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that this will in any way affect his access or rights to the children in isolation. But neither do I want to dismiss this out of hand as this is just one of many examples of questionable choices which, over time and taken together, mean I have to constantly consider whether the safety of my children is being compromised. I'm sure you'll appreciate that is difficult and very hard emotionally, but I have to put the safety of my children first.

OP posts:
LNY1986 · 03/11/2023 14:41

It sounds like your children need a bit more discipline.
They aren't little kids, they are well and truly old enough to sit like civilised human beings in a vehicle.

Not many people would intentionally allow their children to jump about in the back of the car on a motorway, so although legally yoyr husband is responsible the children are extremely ill behaved and should also be punished accordingly.
If they DID unstrap themselves and weren't listening to him then that is horrendously dangerous. He cannot exactly slam on the brakes and deal with it there and then. His first priority would have been to focus on the road ahead and keep in control, especially at motorway speeds.
It's alright others on here saying he should have pulled over and refused to move until they put the belts back on but where?
The hard shoulder is for emergencies, not unruly kids. Also would have incurred a fine in it's own right!
Also at those speeds and depending on what lane he was in/traffic conditions, you can't just pull over easily.

For the police to actually catch him then the children must have been jumping or climbing around as its almost impossible to see in the back seat if kids are sat nicely and tell whether the belts are fastened or not.

You need to have a serious word with those kids and tell them they will cause a nasty accident that could kill somebody. Or Dad needs to buy a baby harness and physically lock them into a 5 point belt.

If they were mine I would refuse to transport them in a car and drag them on buses or make them walk!

Original poster
PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:42

@sandyhappypeople yes they have car seats, clearly they have taken off the seatbelts at some point and clambered out of the car seats.

OP posts:
Itsnotchristmasyet · 03/11/2023 14:43

How old are the kids?

Are they old enough to take their seatbelts off?
Would they actually do it?

I’m sorry I don’t have any legal advice but this is basic parenting and extremely dangerous if he was responsible for not putting their belts on.

If he was angry at them for climbing around and not wanting them to do it, then it does sound like he was telling them to stop if and put their belts on though.

saffronsoup · 03/11/2023 14:44

PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:42

@sandyhappypeople yes they have car seats, clearly they have taken off the seatbelts at some point and clambered out of the car seats.

Have they ever done that while in the car with you?

At 5 and 7, they shouldn't be taking off their seatbelts or getting out of car sears in a moving car. I can't even imagine how they thought that was appropriate. When it happened, was there a consequence at home for that unsafe and bad behaviour?

Original poster
PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:45

@LNY1986 they are reasonably well disciplined with me, as they know I will not tolerate that and that I would notice immediately. In my view, they aren't as well disciplined with him because he often isn't aware (a bit on the spectrum) and then when he is aware, he won't consistently and firmly follow up.

So whilst I sympathise with many of the points you make, I think this is down to his parenting style rather than an inherently poor discipline in the children (but of course they are well aware that what they did was wrong after his outburst).

OP posts:
Original poster
PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:45

@saffronsoup no, they've never done it with me, I think because they absolutely know I won't tolerate it.

OP posts:
Itsnotchristmasyet · 03/11/2023 14:47

Sorry just seen their ages are in the title.

I would chat to the kids and ask them what happened.

I always wait until everyone is buckled before driving off but if they undid their belts, then there’s not a lot he could have done apart from pull over. And it sounds like the police got to him first.

The fact that they were climbing over the seats suggests that they were being really naughty and most likely took off their belts.

CormorantStrikesBack · 03/11/2023 14:48

What does the 7yo say what happened? I’d be trying to get info out of them, telling them they’re not in trouble but asking if daddy “forgot “ to do the seatbelts or did they undo their own

DistrictAndCircle · 03/11/2023 14:49

Not much to add on what you should do, OP, but just to clarify what will happen to him if he ignores the Notice of Intended Prosecution...

If he responds to it and admits it, he will get points and a fine.

If he ignores it or denies it, it will end up being dealt with by Magistrates. He will have the opportunity to come to court. If convicted (either after a trial or in his absence) he won't get any more points. But he will potentially get a much higher fine, and will have to pay court costs and a surcharge equal to 40% of the fine. After a trial, the costs alone will be approaching £1000.

RandomButtons · 03/11/2023 14:49

PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:45

@saffronsoup no, they've never done it with me, I think because they absolutely know I won't tolerate it.

Then it’s 100% on your ex.

No way would I let him have my kids in his car.

Shade17 · 03/11/2023 14:52

If he responds to it and admits it, he will get points and a fine.

As far as I’m aware there are no points for a seatbelt offence.

sandyhappypeople · 03/11/2023 14:57

PoppyMK · 03/11/2023 14:42

@sandyhappypeople yes they have car seats, clearly they have taken off the seatbelts at some point and clambered out of the car seats.

You say that, but do you think that's what's happened, based on their history of being in car seats with you, or is it possible he put them in and didn't fasten them in? If you asked them to fasten themselves in, can they, and would they? Is it possible he opened the doors for them and, for whatever (stupid) reason, let them do what they liked?

It does seem really odd that if they've always been good in the car that they'd all of a sudden unfasten themselves, and not only that they'd climb around in the back and not listen when he told them to get back in their seats.

I wouldn't want him taking the kids anywhere in the car if he can't be honest about what happened.

JaxiiTaxii · 03/11/2023 14:58

My 7yo gets in the car and does up his seatbelt. My kids have worn a belt every car ride, every day of their lives, it's as automatic as putting mine on.

If kids are free range in the back of a car, it's either because:
there's no car seat/booster/belt
it's not consistently enforced by the responsible adult; or
there's behavioural factors (i.e. kids aren't NT) in the mix.

If OP knows it's not factor 3, it's 100% the Dads fault.

Voteva · 03/11/2023 15:03

You have kids together and you’re divorcing so either you have a lawyer or you need a lawyer.

Work out what is best for the children in terms of his future access to the children, and then speak to the lawyer about how to achieve that and whether this prosecution notice can help.

If it was me I’d be asking the lawyer if it was possible that I get full custody on the basis that he is being prosecuted for being criminally negligent when he has care of them.

What exactly happened doesn’t really matter. All children try to get out of their carseats and most succeed. The parent has to persuade the child to stop it or buy a belt-modifier that prevents it or not drive the child until they’ve stopped it. He was not parenting properly. And shouting at the children and blaming them was emotiona abuse, another thing you might wsnt to ask the lawyer about in terms of custody.

What are the chances of this being the only time this happened? I mean it seems incredibly unlikely that the children took their belts off once and that was when the police happened to see?

gamerchick · 03/11/2023 15:03

You don't need any more proof. You also dont need to do a thing if he's ignoring everything. They'll come for him.

What you do is not let the kids in the car with him again.

TeenLifeMum · 03/11/2023 15:03

I’d ask the children what happened but also reaffirm their behaviour wasn’t okay and seatbelts are non negotiable.

Itsnotchristmasyet · 03/11/2023 15:14

TeenLifeMum · 03/11/2023 15:03

I’d ask the children what happened but also reaffirm their behaviour wasn’t okay and seatbelts are non negotiable.

I agree.

I actually think this is something you should be supporting him with.

When you separate he is going to have to be able to control them and they need to know that their behaviour is completely unacceptable and that you are going to back him up in giving out a punishment.

You need to know that your kids are safe.

If that means you and DH putting aside your issues and having to become a team even though you’re separating, then that’s what you need to do.

Venturini · 03/11/2023 15:15

Yeah he would never drive in a car again with my children. Ever. Get legal advice asap and protect your kids from this fucking wanker

Katiesaidthat · 03/11/2023 15:23

I´m sorry but, seat belts? What about car seats?
And his reaction says it all...
Last summer my 5 year old climbed into her seat and my husband and got seriously distracted with luggage and forgot to belt her. Whe had only travelled 50 metres when she was suddenly standing up saying hello mummy! right behind me. We immediately stopped almost having a heart attack, got out, strapped her back in and since then I don´t let anything, and I mean anything, distract me from that one job. His reaction is the same as this guy in Spain (where I am) who got 4.5 years in prison for putting his baby in the seat, not attaching the seat to the car or doing the seatbelt up (couldn´t be bothered) and proceeded to have an accident. The baby flew out of the seat and out through the window on to the road and died. The sod should have got double that. The judge said "you are guilty as a driver, but even more so as a father".

Kinneddar · 03/11/2023 15:25

If the OPs Ex was already on the motorway and one or both of the children unclipped themselves from their seats what is he supposed to do if he's nowhere near an exit/services to get off the motorway

He should have pulled into the hard shoulder

The hard shoulder is for emergencies, not unruly kids. Also would have incurred a fine in it's own right!

No it wouldn't. Fines don't get sent out to people who stop on the hard shoulder. If his car had been seen stopped the police may have stopped to check everything was OK but would be more likely to give the kids a serious talking to than their Dad.

newnamethanks · 03/11/2023 15:28

He's a pig and you're well rid of him. Hopefully - as if - he loses his licence as he doesn't acknowledge how dangerous this is. As are unsecured dogs in a car. Strap them in.

ChristmasPuddingFace · 03/11/2023 15:31

The hard shoulder is for emergencies, not unruly kids. Also would have incurred a fine in it's own right!

Children bouncing around in the back of a car and trying to climb over are an emergency!