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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Trigger warning - rape?

208 replies

Notsure12348 · 22/09/2023 22:42

Name changed as pretty sensitive post. Please don’t read if possible sexual assault will be triggering for you.

Would really appreciate thoughts on whether the following situation would be considered rape/ sexual assault or just a misunderstanding or something else.

  • Female and male both attracted to each other and engaging in foreplay.
  • Female tells male she is happy to have sex but only if a condom is used. Very clear about this being a condition for sex.
  • Male says he doesn’t have any condoms and female doesn’t either, so agree no sex.
  • Kissing etc and naked, male on top of female.
  • Female feels something slightly entering vagina, assumes male’s fingers - fine with this.
  • Female realises it might be male’s penis so asks - he confirms it is.
  • Female tells male she is not comfortable with this, he replies “oh don’t say that” and immediately stops.

Not nescessarily directly impacting upon the above but following this:

  • Female and male continue to kiss etc.
  • Next morning male finds he does have a condom and they have sex.
  • Over text when female raises the previous issue, male replies along the lines of saying that he doesn’t understand why she is concerned as he has no STIs and that as they were naked, his penis was bound to touch her, but doesn’t deny that it did penetrate her.

AIBU:

  • Reasonable: it was rape or sexual assault.
  • Unreasonable: it was a misunderstanding or some other situation that was not an assault.
OP posts:
INeedAnotherName · 22/09/2023 22:49

So-called 'stealthing' is a form of rape. It happens when people agree to have sex with a condom and then someone either lies about putting a condom on or removes it without the other person's permission.

Look up stealthing. They agreed no sex without a condom. She did not consent to sex without. It is rape.

Original poster
Notsure12348 · 22/09/2023 23:23

Any other views?

OP posts:
sillyuniforms · 22/09/2023 23:48

I thought it said he stopped so no full penetration

SirenSays · 22/09/2023 23:50

Stealthing.

FannyFifer · 22/09/2023 23:52

Hmmm, agreement was sex only with a condom although they both maintained physical contact in that position without putting underwear back on, so possibly went from penis rubbing against clit or whatever to entry. He then stopped immediately.

I really dunno on this, personally I would not class as rape but understand that this would be very different for others who would class as such.

Mooshamoo · 22/09/2023 23:53

Did this happen to you?

I would feel uncomfortable if that happened to me yes. I'm thinking of it from the woman's point of view.

Mooshamoo · 22/09/2023 23:54

It's hard to know if he truly did it by accident

sillyuniforms · 22/09/2023 23:58

Tbh I'm a rape victim. Mine unusually was a an unknown male 12 years ago and I was walking home.
In my youth when I was in your circumstances OP & he stopped - no I would not class as rape.
Pushing luck maybe. Rape no

Missingmyusername · 23/09/2023 00:10

If there’s no condom and I didn’t want to pursue I’d probably stop and get dressed to be honest. Because if things carry on there’s going to some kind of interaction with body parts of your both naked, on top of each other and other body parts are presumably in contact?

“So-called 'stealthing' is a form of rape. It happens when people agree to have sex with a condom and then someone either lies about putting a condom on or removes it without the other person's permission.”

GarlicGrace · 23/09/2023 00:17

I think stopping when you said Stop makes it not rape. Very uncomfortable situation, though, and he could be a lot more understanding.

Original poster
Notsure12348 · 23/09/2023 00:31

Mooshamoo · 22/09/2023 23:53

Did this happen to you?

I would feel uncomfortable if that happened to me yes. I'm thinking of it from the woman's point of view.

Yes it happened to me, but I wanted to try not to bias the information presented so I could get other’s views as I feel quite conflicted about it, and information I have found is not particularly clear. I don’t want to take any action regarding it, but wanted a sense of whether my anger about the situation is valid.

OP posts:
Userxxxxx · 23/09/2023 00:43

Most males engaged with since Covid 19 have absolutely longed to wear a condom, understandably I’ve not yet met someone who say’s they don’t want to wear a condom. Sorry.

IHateLegDay · 23/09/2023 00:46

As a rape victim, I wouldn't class this as rape.
Unacceptable but there wasn't full penetration and he stopped immediately when told to.

That being said, I wouldn't speak to him again as he doesn't mind blurring boundary lines.

IHateLegDay · 23/09/2023 00:46

That was meant to say 'his behaviour was unacceptable'

yogasaurus · 23/09/2023 00:48

Not acceptable, but not rape

applesandmares · 23/09/2023 00:50

I think from a legal standpoint it technically is rape - he did not have consent to penetrate you with his penis, and he knew that.

Your anger is valid.

I would say though that context can make a difference to how we feel about something, in spite of the legal standpoint. For instance, if this happened with my fiancé, I wouldn't feel that I was raped, rather I'd feel like it was a hopeful move on his part and he was chancing it. If it happened with a one night stand, I'd feel much more aggrieved, even if they stopped when told.

Were you angry at the time or only in retrospect? He might not be taking your anger as seriously because of the things that happened afterwards (not that the things that happened afterwards change the legalities around the initial penetration).

letstrythatagain · 23/09/2023 00:52

I'd say no to it being rape. You said stop and he stopped and then you carried on. BUT it's terrible that he did it in the first place.

KitDeLuca · 23/09/2023 00:53

You have every right and validation to feel however you feel and your anger is justified. However, I don't think it was rape or even sexual assault. Poor behaviour on his part. As PP said he was pushing his luck but when you queried and asked him to stop he did. He won't think he did anything wrong. I wouldn't want to see him again though if you do make sure you spell out your clear boundaries to him. He may listen.

verdantverdure · 23/09/2023 00:57

He was told no penile penetration because of no condom and he inserted his penis anyway?

it doesn’t matter how far or for how long.

if you think it does, imagine he’d done that to your child or your gran or someone you don’t have patriarchal sexual politics thought distortions about.

No means no doesn’t it?

Not “just the tip to see if I get away with it”

applesandmares · 23/09/2023 00:59

Interesting to see many PPs consider this not to be rape.

The definition is:

(1)
A person (A) commits an offence if—
(a)
he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis,
(b)
B does not consent to the penetration, and
(c)
A does not reasonably believe that B consents.

He intentionally penetrated her vagina with his penis (it does not need to be "full penetration"). OP did not consent to this, and he didn't reasonably believe she did, as per their conversation around the necessity of a condom.

Original poster
Notsure12348 · 23/09/2023 01:05

applesandmares · 23/09/2023 00:50

I think from a legal standpoint it technically is rape - he did not have consent to penetrate you with his penis, and he knew that.

Your anger is valid.

I would say though that context can make a difference to how we feel about something, in spite of the legal standpoint. For instance, if this happened with my fiancé, I wouldn't feel that I was raped, rather I'd feel like it was a hopeful move on his part and he was chancing it. If it happened with a one night stand, I'd feel much more aggrieved, even if they stopped when told.

Were you angry at the time or only in retrospect? He might not be taking your anger as seriously because of the things that happened afterwards (not that the things that happened afterwards change the legalities around the initial penetration).

Initially I wasn’t sure what to make of it but the next day I felt angry, mainly because he didn’t seem to understand why I was upset - I’d explained to him that I was taking a medication that was teratogenic so I couldn’t risk unprotected contact. When I was upset the following day he actually ripped my bag as I tried to leave (grabbed it to try to stop me walking out) and that also upset me as it felt like it was another boundary not being respected.

OP posts:
Mooshamoo · 23/09/2023 01:05

Its hard to know what to call it. I know if it happened to me i would be angry. And I don't think I would sleep with the person again.

It probably is technically rape as he only had permission to enter with a condom. It's hard to know the technicalities.

You are right to feel angry op

Mooshamoo · 23/09/2023 01:06

I definitelt wouldn't be having sex with him again.thats for sure

Mooshamoo · 23/09/2023 01:07

I think personally if it happened to me: i would think it was a bottle of a sexual assault as he went past my boundaries. And I would be upset. However I wouldn't charge him as when I asked him to stop he stopped.

But you def have the right to feel upset

Mooshamoo · 23/09/2023 01:08

*it was a bit of a sexual assault

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