Trigger warning - rape?

[Notsure12348]

Name changed as pretty sensitive post. Please don’t read if possible sexual assault will be triggering for you.

Would really appreciate thoughts on whether the following situation would be considered rape/ sexual assault or just a misunderstanding or something else.

• Female and male both attracted to each other and engaging in foreplay.
• Female tells male she is happy to have sex but only if a condom is used. Very clear about this being a condition for sex.
• Male says he doesn’t have any condoms and female doesn’t either, so agree no sex.
• Kissing etc and naked, male on top of female.
• Female feels something slightly entering vagina, assumes male’s fingers - fine with this.
• Female realises it might be male’s penis so asks - he confirms it is.
• Female tells male she is not comfortable with this, he replies “oh don’t say that” and immediately stops.

Not nescessarily directly impacting upon the above but following this:

• Female and male continue to kiss etc.
• Next morning male finds he does have a condom and they have sex.
• Over text when female raises the previous issue, male replies along the lines of saying that he doesn’t understand why she is concerned as he has no STIs and that as they were naked, his penis was bound to touch her, but doesn’t deny that it did penetrate her.

AIBU:

• Reasonable: it was rape or sexual assault.
• Unreasonable: it was a misunderstanding or some other situation that was not an assault.

For those posters who are steadfast in their position (including you @BananaSlug 😂)

In 2019 a sex worker engaged in consensual sex with a punter. The sex was conditional upon the use of a condom. He removed the condom without her knowledge. This was tried in a court of law, and as her consent was conditional upon the use of a condom, he was found guilty of rape and sentenced to a 12 year prison term.

The law around consent is ever-developing. When my siblings were born, forced sexual activity within a marriage was legal (which is frankly astounding!).

If you have sons, please educate them on the law as it is in it's present form, rather than what you 'believe' it should be, otherwise they may find themselves serving a decade or more for something you don't even consider to be sexual assault.

I’m curious if those saying he was pushing his luck, or that it’s not rape, would feel the same if he had put his penis in her mouth or anus? Where is that line drawn?

OP, regardless of what you decide to call it, in that moment he cared more about getting his needs met, than your consent, boundaries or preferences. You stopped existing as an equal human and became a sex object.

I ended a relationship for the same thing. I wasn’t articulate, or angry. My mind just sort of shut off when I thought of him, and I felt ill at the thought of being near him.

If it was a brushing of the lip rather than entering, it would be the same. Pushing into tje anus but not entering is the same. The body part is irrelevant. I'd describe it as attempted rape or sexual assault.

Agree that it doesn't matter what you call it. What happened still happened.

Guy is clearly a wrong in. There is no doubt that there was no consent to do that with an uncovered penis.

This thread makes me sad. I'm sure this scenario has happened to me a few times.

Another thing to take into account is when a man is aroused and naked over a woman's body, his animal instincts begin to come into play which is to shove the penis into the vagina.

Better men can and should control themselves . I'm just thinking of two men that I was with that were a bit similiar.

One man said "I need to go inside". And the other man said to me "my body is telling me to do things to you that you don't want me to do".

Sex is risky. Some Aroused men I believe are often going to try as much as they can get away with . There are some good men who will stop and check no matter what.

I don't know why but this thread made me really sad. I'm sure many of us have been in the scenario op has described. It's a minefield out there

It isn't seen the same though. Not by anyone.

But OP does not say his penis 'brushed' her vagina. She says "slightly entering vagina".

She also says he "doesn't deny he did penetrate her".

If it's in, it's in.

Why are you trying to make out that men can't control themselves? They absolutely can, they ALL can stop themselves from penetrating someone.

That's not what I said.

I'm saying men can control themselves.

I'm also saying some Aroused men can be dangerous and cam choose selfishly not to stop themselves.

And in that scenario they always have the power not us. As they are physically stronger.

You said men having their animal instincts take over needs to be taken into account. I'm not sure why it needs to be taken into account by anyone, his instincts have no barring over whether this was rape or not, he can and should have controlled himself.

Where did I say all men can't control themselves?

Im reading back my post, nd I see I wrote -

"better men can control themselves , some aroused men are going to try to get away with whatever they can get away with"

So I said better men can control themselves. The more selfish men will try to push boundaries and not care

What's sad is that you're prepared to excuse this as "animal instincts". Many animals have the instinct to kill but you wouldn't use that as a defence against a human who'd committed murder.

Sex shouldn't have to be risky. No person, man or woman - but especially women because they're so much more likely to be the victim - should have to go into every sexual encounter thinking that their partner might choose this time to ignore issues around consent.

That isn't rape in my view. You have the right to be annoyed though.
On the other hand if you knew there were no condoms it would have been more sensible to keep your pants on, at least.

Wow, well done on the victim blaming there.

I'm not excusing anything. I was thinking kindly and sadly about the op and about my own experiences.

I'm not sure why women turn against each other at time like this.

Right I think how i wrote the animal instincts bit came across not how I meant it. I've every sympathy for the OP.

Can I retract that bit.

What I did want to say is "better men can control themselves, selfish men will take what they want".

I do think some men can be extremely selfish and will think of what they want more than what the woman wants.

I've definitely had more negative sexual experiences than positive.

But I've had some very positive ones too

@BeatenByAScone

Female feels something slightly entering vagina, assumes male’s fingers

To me this sounds more like attempted rape. It's up to op to decide if she thinks it was rape and to deal with it however she sees for for herself.

Op asks specifically whether this situation would be considered rape. None of us here know for sure, we're just giving our opinions on a situation posted here.

Attempted rape doesn't change what happened that day and is still a crime.

If you don't consent to any form of intercourse, don't take your clothes off, or at least be aware of where their body is on relation to yours. It's not fair to willingly engage in foreplay, take your clothes off, and expect someone to check every little thing before they do it. As long as they are gentle and stop immediately if you ask them to, I think that is fine and doesn't involve any risk.

Avoiding sex with people you don't know is the best way to stay safe.

This is how I feel. It would have been rape if he didn’t stop but he did.

You also don't speak on behalf of everyone who has been raped..

OP asked for opinions on whether it was rape or not. I gave my opinion, you gave a different opinion.

OP has also said it was years ago this happened and only recently due to the news about Russel Brand has it made her think about this. So it obviously didn't feel uncomfortable or traumatic if you have sex again the next day and then aren't affected by it for years.

We seem to have different opinions on the definition of the word 'entering'.

If any part of his penis was inside her vagina that is penetration.

I'm not in the USA, and assume OP isn't either, but it's interesting that the FBI definition of rape specifically says "Penetration, no matter how slight..."

@WillowCraft

If you don't consent to any form of intercourse, don't take your clothes off, or at least be aware of where their body is on relation to yours. It's not fair to willingly engage in foreplay, take your clothes off, and expect someone to check every little thing before they do it. As long as they are gentle and stop immediately if you ask them to, I think that is fine and doesn't involve any risk.

This is a very general sweeping statement of little relevance to the OPs situation. She was consenting to the foreplay and nakedness. She was also consenting to protected intercourse. She didn't expect him to "check every little thing" - she expected him to respect her decision not to have sex without a condom, which was clearly communicated to him.

This isn't a situation where two people got naked and carried away. They had a conversation about the terms on which intercourse could take place. He decided he didn't care about her consent and penetrated in spite of the conditions of consent she had clearly laid out to him. If he was hoping she had changed her mind, he should have sought her consent again before penetrating her.

@BananaSlug so your interpretation of rape is defined as whether someone stops or not after penetrating you? Have you considered that consent should be sought prior to penetration rather than afterwards?

If someone punched you in the face would that be ok seeing as they didn't understand that you didn't want to be assaulted? Or would you expect someone to ask if you wanted to be punched first? Would it all be ok if they stopped punching when you asked, or would you feel assaulted nonetheless?

I don’t agree it’s rape and don’t get naked with someone if you don’t want to have sex; you are not going to change my opinion.