To be angry my daughter was made to kiss a family friend?

[Garethkeenansstapler]

Something that’s been playing on my mind for a few weeks.

DH took our daughter, 3, to visit his mum and dad who live locally. Their friends happened to be there (same couple their age, DH has known them since he was little) and DH mentioned when he got back ‘DD even gave Pete a kiss when she left’.

Now DD is confident but would never kiss a man she doesn’t know willingly. It turns out they had ‘encouraged’ her to give him a kiss and she had ‘eventually’ done it.

I don’t know why but it’s made me really angry. I asked if he would make our baby DS kiss him in future and DH said ‘of course not’ but couldn’t really justify why not. We all know of course 🙄

I would of course expect DD to say goodbye or wave to people as they were leaving, as I think manners matter. But the thought of her being made to kiss old men she doesn’t know to make them happy makes my blood boil.

It’s clear DH thinks I’m overreacting, so I’m going to show him this thread if the response shows I’m not BU. So please lay out why this was so inappropriate of him and that I’m not some neurotic madwoman for being angry about it.

Thanks x

YANBU at all. Tell them all that you don’t want dd to kiss any stranger.

Having been the kid that was expected to do this even though I felt scared or uncomfortable, I get it.
Hope this can be a line in the sand to ensure DD isn't expected to do this in future

Completely agree with you OP. How many among of us remember being made to kiss old "uncles" Goodbye and dreading it? 😡

This was the same issue that deemed me a "mad pfb mother' nope just a woman trying to support my children in their boundaries.

Ask your DH why didn't he kiss x, and if not why not. Does he want his child to give affection on command so how does she learn to develop boundaries and recognize them.

Yes out of order! A high five would have been perfectly ok

YANBU
I remember being expected to kiss numerous people when leaving a gathering etc and absolutely hating it!
When I see other people’s kids now I tend to say “High five or a hug?” and with my own kids if relatives ask for a kiss I give the alternative of a high five to my kids. That way they feel they are in control but have also had some interaction with the person.
We need to empower our kids that just because an adult has asked for a kiss they don’t HAVE to do it!

I think for me the question is what you want her decision making to look like when she’s older- then model it now.

So, when she’s 16 and a man many years her senior is persuading her to kiss him. Do you want her to have learnt that she should override her natural boundaries and kiss him because it’s “the good thing to do”? Or do you want her to feel confident in her bodily autonomy and be able to articulate that she doesn’t want to and expect to have that respected?

I would say that I don’t think that your husband has done anything terrible here. It’s hard to think about the long term parenting implications in the moment. But now it’s been pointed out to him I think he should take it on board.

YANBU This is exactly how we socialise girls to acquiesce to behaviour they would prefer not to engage in because they are made to feel they should. The lesson here was that it is more important to keep an unfamiliar man happy than to be comfortable or to please themselves. I'd be cross too.

YADNBU X

YANBU at all.
My respinning of situations like this is "so a adult man/woman chose to pressurise a child to give them a kiss?"
I'd bet money that when framed like that the backtracking starts and it "wasn't like that, it's just a joke, they weren't really pushed into it, it was just to say goodbye" and all sorts of mental gymnastics to justify why adult wants come before teaching children boundaries matter.

You are right OP. Stranger danger is important, having boundaries is important. It should not be normalised to kiss random old men, or be encouraged to do so. Way out of line.

Jesus Christ. It's bad enough making children kiss people against their will (what would you call that if it was an adult? Hmm) but this is another level with the sexism along for the ride as well.

Children are people and deserve to have choices about their bodily autonomy. Girls are, shock horror, also people and deserve to have their boundaries respected just as much as boys do.

Tell your husband to get a grip, stop being a sexist arse, and respect his daughter's no.

Why does DH think it's a good idea to teach your DD to do things that make her uncomformable if someone pesters her long enough?

How does he think that will turn out when she's older, and being peer pressured into all sorts of things, if she's been taught her boundaries matter less than everyone else's wants?

Why does he think it's a good idea to teach her that kissing complete strangers is normal?

Does he not think it's down right bloody weird that this bloke even wanted a kiss from a small child he doesn't know from Adam?

I was this child. I was maybe 7/8 and I was made to kiss the son of a family friend who was 13/14 when I was leaving. Honestly when I think back it was utterly bizarre. I remember absolutely hating it and trying to be first out of the door or hiding behind my mum to try and slip away without being noticed. Ds went through a spell of not wanting to kiss my DMIL. And do you know what she did? Waved and shook his hand when we were leaving. That’s a boundary observed. Stick to your guns on this one.

Thousands of women are abused emotionally, psychologically, financially, physically & sexually by men on a daily basis.
We need to bring up all children, but especially the girls, to understand their rights, to respect their own body and to have the strength to say no when someone asks them to do anything that makes hem uncomfortable.
This particularly applies when people want physical contact.

Men struggle to see and understand that their physicality makes them intimidating; they are larger, stronger, louder and frequently language that is demanding and aggressive.

Children are learning from birth so you need to ensure that your daughter can say NO to anyone without having to give a reason. That includes you, her parents.

YANBU. It's about DD learning from a young age that it is OK for her to have boundaries and not to bow to pressure to keep the menfolk happy.

How many women have done things in the past that they didn't entirely want to do, but went along with because some man wanted them to?

There's a difference between reluctant consent and enthusiastic consent.

It's hard being a woman, and your DH is making it even harder for her. And, of course, he doesn't get it because... male privilege. How nice for him. He's a husband to a woman and a father to a girl, so he needs to open his eyes and be an ally for both of you.

He should think about what sort of behaviour he doesn't want men displaying towards his daughter when she's grown up and what he can do now, to better equip her to deal with the pressure then. Supporting her as a young woman starts by supporting her as a young girl.

DS hates being kissed and MiL has now lost his trust as she promised she wouldn't kiss him, then she did. He now won't even hug her goodbye. Not sure what would have happened had it been a DD and FiL. Not nice either way if child has said they don't want to be kissed.

So next time Pete wants to kiss her and she happens to be alone how do you expect her to feel she can say no or to understand it isn’t ok?

At what age does it stop being ok to force a female child to kiss an older man? 8? 13? 17? You can surely recognise that you wouldnt insist your teenager misses him so why your child at age 3?

Im also fascinated that your DH feels comfortable saying he wouldn’t expect his young son to kiss an older man. How does he justify that difference? If it’s an entirely non sexual event then why is it only ok for the girls in his heteronormative world to do the kissing. Surely he can see the levels of ick that presents to him?

Your daughter needs to know her boundaries. That her body is hers and not to be shared with randomness at the request of others.

Im actually really stressed out reading this thread

YANBU. No child should be made to kiss anyone. I would never expect that from a child. Anyone encouraging it needs to be put straight.

You are 100% right OP.

Children should not be kissed against their will or made to kiss against their will. Nor should they be touched by anyone or made to touch anyone against their will.

Urgh! For those who think it's OK to force children to put up with such things. It's just horrible to even think of that.

Adults should not be kissed against their will or forced to do so ... ... It's even more horrible to think of children being so abused. Urgh!

I agree with you @Garethkeenansstapler

It's important to teach children especially girls about they have a choice over who they want to show Express their affection to and who they allow to express show affection in that manner too,
Body Automy and healthy strong boundaries, !
So it becomes second nature for your child daughter.
Really put simply its a potential child safety safeguarding issue.

Teach your daughter and if you have any other children in future , to value themselves and their bodies.

Just in case of potential predators...

Not ok. Dc need to know that they have the right to say no. If they are uncomfortable in a situation they need to trust that their parents will support them in enforcing their boundaries.

Your dh has failed your dd by showing her that she must put mens feelings before her own needs.

Thanks everyone, keep the replies coming as I feel the more there are the more he will realise I’m not being some kind of overprotective hysterical mother.

Just to clarify I feel no anger or annoyance whatsoever towards Pete. He probably felt a little awkward himself. It’s DH I feel angry at. Treating our daughter differently to our son because apparently it’s the job of little girls to make older men happy, but mysteriously not the job of little boys (not that it should be the job of either of them). It just reeks of sexism and failing to protect DD to people please. Well, man please.

You’re completely right and I’d be angry and upset he’s put her in that situation then lied to you about what happened and minimised your obvious and sensible concerns.

My step mum once threw a strop at my daughter not wanting a cuddle and I had to tell her to back off.

Everyone else I know, everyone, takes a child’s bodily autonomy seriously and offers a wave, or a high five or whatever when saying hi or bye to my now 4 year old.

No one makes her feel uncomfortable by trying to insist on touching her body without her consent. I will die on that hill and don’t care who’s shitty about it.

You stand up for your child and her rights to choose who touches her and read him the fucking riot act. If I sound angry it’s because I am. For her, for you and for all of the other children who should be taught this.

If it’s an entirely non sexual event then why is it only ok for the girls in his heteronormative world to do the kissing. Surely he can see the levels of ick that presents to him?

Nail on head.