To be angry my daughter was made to kiss a family friend?

[Garethkeenansstapler]

Something that’s been playing on my mind for a few weeks.

DH took our daughter, 3, to visit his mum and dad who live locally. Their friends happened to be there (same couple their age, DH has known them since he was little) and DH mentioned when he got back ‘DD even gave Pete a kiss when she left’.

Now DD is confident but would never kiss a man she doesn’t know willingly. It turns out they had ‘encouraged’ her to give him a kiss and she had ‘eventually’ done it.

I don’t know why but it’s made me really angry. I asked if he would make our baby DS kiss him in future and DH said ‘of course not’ but couldn’t really justify why not. We all know of course 🙄

I would of course expect DD to say goodbye or wave to people as they were leaving, as I think manners matter. But the thought of her being made to kiss old men she doesn’t know to make them happy makes my blood boil.

It’s clear DH thinks I’m overreacting, so I’m going to show him this thread if the response shows I’m not BU. So please lay out why this was so inappropriate of him and that I’m not some neurotic madwoman for being angry about it.

Thanks x

Ugh @eldersis I know exactly what you mean. Parents who "loved" you. But not only don't protect you - but actively colluded in putting you at risk or humiliating you. Manners above all else!!
Your post resonates with me, and probably every other woman on this thread.

He's not a monster, but he's a bit thick for not figuring this out for himself, and a big sulky sook for not admitting he was in the wrong when it was pointed out.

Your DH needs safeguarding training immediately and the PIL’s need VERY firm boundaries put in place (by him) regarding kissing and touching. And you are bloody awesome standing your ground on this! 👏👏👏 I can remember being forced to kiss and hug people as a little kid who made my skin crawl and many touchy-feely incidents and comments that I didn’t understand but I just knew were wrong. They were minimised as “harmless”every time, and I had my heart in my mouth whenever the possibility of seeing these people came up. I was seriously SA when I was 14 and I am certain that one of the reasons I didn’t press charges is because my family minimised everything when I was growing up and wouldn’t have believed me. People would never get away with this behaviour these days!!!

If you don't teach your daughter that her boundaries matter, she won't have any boundaries.

How are we meant to expect girls to say "no" to pushy boyfriends wanting sex when they aren't allowed to say "no" to an unwanted kiss? How can we expect women to recognise coercive control when their own fathers coerced them into physical contact that they didn't want when they were small? How do we expect women to recognise that someone ignoring her "no" in the bedroom is rape if we ignore their "no" when they are little girls?

It's not about Pete not being a nonce. It's about the actual nonces who are always looking for a child who lacks boundaries.

Have you considered divorcing this prick who cannot take criticism even to protect his own daughter?

Quite right @Garethkeenansstapler. Your child needs to know right from the beginning that she has the power to say “No” because she owns her own body. I had a stand up argument with my own mother about this when my own kids were little and said “Well, I imagine if I had felt that I had been able to say No, then maybe I wouldn’t have been in a position to be gang raped when I was fourteen. Or perhaps I would have felt like I might have had some support and asked for help afterwards! I’m the mother and I make the rules!!!”

The number of women on this thread who were sexually assaulted as girls is horrifying. I salute your courage in speaking out about your experiences to protect this OP's little girl.

It's very, very common unfortunately.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/almost-1-in-every-35-men-could-be-a-sexual-risk-to-children-national-crime-agency-says-10334624.html

This was published before lockdown and since lockdown there's been some extreme cases of child abuse.

People bored of their pornhub account and succumbing to their urges for CP or acting out molestation fantasies.

Another study suggested upto 13% of men and 4% of women have viewed CP for pleasure.

"Almost" 1 in 35 men which is one on every street.
1 working in every school.
1 working on every building site. Etc.
At least.

Pete might not be a nonce but the thing is, he doesn't know that.

He isn't a monster, he's a sulking nob who should learn from this error and if he doesn't then he's a willfully ignorant nob also.

You are not overreacting and your DH needs to apologize to your DD and promise her it will never happen again. He also needs to talk with his parents about it
Furthermore, he can never complain if you doubt his parenting abilities because that wasn't some small error he did there. What other stupid things might he do because he just didn't think.

Exactly. No one makes boys kiss people they don't want to. The double standards are disgusting. I'm shocked your husband doesn't acknowledge this.

I sometimes wonder about how women are trained in childhood to ignore their gut instincts and to have a low bar with men. This is exactly one of the ways this pisspoor socialisation happens.

Absolutely agree. I was told by a family friend once that I should force my children to kiss her goodbye and I was not parenting them correctly because it was rude of them not to. They liked her but did not want to kiss her goodbye and I fully support that. I told her the same thing everyone has emphasised in this thread. Children have the right to their own boundaries and bodily autonomy.

Your husband is absolutely 100% wrong on this issue. Teaching children boundaries and their right to say no to attention that makes them uncomfortable is vital.

I was always "encouraged" (made to) kiss everyone when we left relatives houses when i was a child. I used to dread the time when it came to leave. One uncle in particular used to give me the creeps. Turned out he was a paedophile. I never make my dc kiss anyone they don't want to.

Definitely not unreasonable. This story has reminded me of an incident when I was about 17. I was at a prize giving event, in a lecture theatre with 200 or so people, and the prizes were being handed out by some distinguished old man. All recipients a similar age to me, audience made up of assorted parents and teachers. All the male winners shook hands with with the man, but he kissed all the female winners on the cheek. I remember watching in horror, and when my turn came I instinctively moved my head away, sending a shocked/ surprised ripple through the audience. I was embarrassed at the time, but quite proud of myself looking back on it now.

Well done @swayingpalmtree. It's heartening to hear the number of mums that are now protecting their daughters in the way they weren't as young girls. You're all breaking the cycle.

Incidentally I've been very careful to observe my sons' boundaries too. It's not just about how they develop sexual boundaries. These kinds of things run through people's lives, including at work, with pushy neighbours, with CF friends etc.

I've been on quite a few personal development workshops and one of the exercises is being able to test your boundaries. You do this by directing how close people are allowed to come towards you or move away from you using hand signals. It's amazing how empowered particularly women are to be able to have a say about personal distances. They often cheer and giggle with pleasure and it sounds like the young girl inside them who didn't have personal autonomy is rejoicing.

Yuk. He's already training your DD to put her wishes about who she has physical contact with, second.

Tell him to rethink - fast - if he doesn't want his DD to grow up with a warped sense of her own value.

Good for taking that decision but be prepared for family fallout. The type of thick people who think this is OK may not take well to that being pointed out

Are you viewing your husband differently now his ignorance is on display?

No child should be forced to have physical contact with an adult with very limited caveats eg medical treatment.

Your DH is teaching his DD that a man's desire is more important than her feelings and instinct.

I also hated that thing where an adult would blow a raspberry on your tummy, your reaction is laughter but it isn't funny.

Please show this thread to your DH. This forced kissing has to stop.

Also did DH kiss 'Pete'? How would he feel if his parents 'encouraged' him to do it.

Yeah I’d be furious, girls really do need to in their bones feel that it is their right to refuse.

Sorry I have just read some more threads, I'm so angry on your behalf and that of your DD.

If 'Pete' isn't a nonce why does he want a little girl to kiss him? If your DH takes your children tot he park does he expect anyone else's children to kiss him? Why not?

a one off is going to pass but conditioning a child to kiss someone she doesn’t want to after pressure from adults - if this continues he will be teaching her to be submissive to others for the sake of politeness and when she is older and someone wants to kiss her she doesn’t want to be kissed by - she’ll not reject them due to not wanting to be polite. Tell your hubby children’s most informative years are at this age and he’s setting up a pattern of behaviour for life

@eldersis and @Oversharingnamechanged both your stories are so upsetting to read.

OP, I actually feel very sorry for you, married to someone who would sulk at such a legitimate concern about his daughters safety.

You are married to a moron.

I definitely wouldn't be leaving them with your inlaws, not with an open house situation.

I have always been so fussy about who my children were with, and in particular about who they might be left with, luckily my husband would be absolutely on the same page.

My thinking was/is, here we are as parents, trying to do the very best we can with them every single day, their sleep, nutrition, education, provide a calm happy home, make the feel valued, loved, cherished, give them opportunities for sports, music, you name it.

Bending over backwards to give them the best start in life.

The truth is that that every bit of a happy loving home and childhood can absolutely be undone by allowing your child to be exposed to these bastards.

Childhoods are utterly destroyed by them, all that is remembered is the bewildered pain and confusion.

One friend had this happen to her by her fathers friend.
She never told her parents because she loved them too much and it would destroyed them.
She had MH, anxiety and depression for years until she told her friends the truth in her 30's.

The parents of children that this happen too are destroyed at knowing that they failed to protect their children.

I know it would have destroyed us, so we made the decision to be as proactive as we could.

They haven't led sheltered lives in the slightest but we were very fussy while they were young and were very clear about teaching them about body autonomy.

Your daughter needs you to be very firm on this, especially as her father is more concerned about his hurt feelings than his childs🙄.

Really unattractive in a man.

Gross. Its teaching her to override her own instincts about what she wants to do with her body. Its teaching her her consent doesnt matter if a man wants something from her. I fucking hate this shit. I would be RAGING.

This is it; I’m quick shocked he allowed it, and it’s made me doubt everything else.

DD has been to PILs plenty of times without us when there have been other relatives/friends there and now my stomach is turning wondering if they’ve pulled this before.

It wouldn’t have been DH suggesting she kiss him - knowing everyone as well as I do Im 99% sure it was MIL, who would’ve seen it as ‘cute’ and ‘charming’ to see her granddaughter performing like a show pony and pleasing her friend by kissing him 🤮 but I’m guessing the rest joined in ‘yes can he have a kiss? Go on’, then probably praise when she did it 🙄 makes me feel quite ill to think about to be honest.

I don’t care about the fallout of stopping her going round without us, they think I’m hysterical as it is for other (valid) reasons.

I’d be asking why how the adults felt about your dd kissing someone was more important than how SHE felt. Does he want her to learn that what someone wants from her, or do do to her is more important than what she wants? Because that’s the lesson he’s teaching. How can she expect a date to respect her no when Daddy taught her that her no doesn’t matter?

I’d absolutely be enraged by this.