To be angry my daughter was made to kiss a family friend?

[Garethkeenansstapler]

Something that’s been playing on my mind for a few weeks.

DH took our daughter, 3, to visit his mum and dad who live locally. Their friends happened to be there (same couple their age, DH has known them since he was little) and DH mentioned when he got back ‘DD even gave Pete a kiss when she left’.

Now DD is confident but would never kiss a man she doesn’t know willingly. It turns out they had ‘encouraged’ her to give him a kiss and she had ‘eventually’ done it.

I don’t know why but it’s made me really angry. I asked if he would make our baby DS kiss him in future and DH said ‘of course not’ but couldn’t really justify why not. We all know of course 🙄

I would of course expect DD to say goodbye or wave to people as they were leaving, as I think manners matter. But the thought of her being made to kiss old men she doesn’t know to make them happy makes my blood boil.

It’s clear DH thinks I’m overreacting, so I’m going to show him this thread if the response shows I’m not BU. So please lay out why this was so inappropriate of him and that I’m not some neurotic madwoman for being angry about it.

Thanks x

I didn't edit or reorder anything, I quoted you. No, I didn't quote your entire comment because it was irrelevant - that's how quoting works. Everyone can see your initial comment. You minimised the issue.

I am very empathetic actually - but, this thread isn't about me anyway.

The OP DID realise it at the time and questioned it and then has simmered on it for weeks.

The way you have worded that can be interpreted two ways:

• "The girl won't be harmed by this one-off event, which the OP has already ensured will be one-off", which I think, now that you have clarified, is what you meant.

-- "It isn't a big deal for girls to be forced to kiss older men", which is what at least two posters read it as.

Please don't blame people for not understanding what you've written when you've worded your point ambiguously.

@Garethkeenansstapler

She would’ve made DD kiss him because it reflects well on her as having a granddaughter who pleases her friends and does what she says, if that makes sense?

That makes me feel a little sick.. 🌹

You didn't quote me if you took out some of my words!!!

If you took out some of my words and then put another part of the quote in where the sentence hadn't finished then you did edit and changed the meaning of the original sentence!

If i minimised the issue in your opinion then that is totally different.

Of course it was meant as the former and i wouldn't think that it is ok for a little girl (or any person for that matter) to be forced to kiss any Man, Woman or Beast that they didn't want to.

I think it true Mumsnet army - it is very easy for people to pick up on the negative and be argumentative.

...Do you understand what a quote is? If someone says they are quoting Shakespeare do you expect them to recite an entire play because otherwise it isn't a quote? Do you understand what the ellipsis I used means?

You minimised the issue by telling OP it was a "non issue". That's what you said. You're now backtracking. If that's not what you meant then own it. Don't tell me I changed your words (I didn't) to suit my "agenda" 🙄.

Incidentally, I don't know what you imagine my "agenda" might be. Arguing that children shouldn't be made to kiss people against their will? Isn't that what you're now claiming you were arguing all along too?

Women are taught to internalise and minimise and sit and stew on stuff instead of bringing it up, especially when bringing it up will mean telling a man that he is wrong. There are women on this site for whom contradicting their husbands means a beating. Telling a man "no" takes courage and conviction. The OP's H has already sulked about this.

I suggest that you spend some time on the women's rights boards where we discuss female social conditioning and the threat of male violence a lot. We are currently discussing a recent news report in which a woman's unintended disagreement with a man (she called his colleague a lady) resulted in her being shouted at, his hands clapped in her face, her husband assaulted by him, and him smashing a glass door. For many women, the fear of male violence is ever-present and hard to overcome.

Her body, her choice. Even at 3.

My 3 year old granddaughter isn’t even made to cuddle immediate family. It’s made clear that cuddles and kisses are consensual. Very very important lesson for a child.

I'm not backtracking - i fully stand by my views.

Again - this thread isn't about me. I won't be having anymore dialogue with you as this is absolutely stupid!

The problem isn't that the girl kissed the man, it's that she didn't want to and was ordered to anyway.

This and further that she was then praised for it.

OP teach her that goodbye is a smile and a wave. Optional, that she could blow a kiss IF she felt like it. Teach her that she doesn’t have to have physical contact that she doesn’t want.

My only exception is eg hand holding when crossing a road or anything for safety reasons.

The OP's H has already sulked about this.

It's just hit me: Sulking is a tool of emotional blackmail that he uses to punish her for disagreeing with him, to deter her from disagreeing with him again.

Now I've seen it, I can't unsee it.

Even with my own Grandchildren and Great Grandchildren, I never expect them to kiss or hug me. It's their decision. I don't see them often as they live a long way away, so often I'll get a kiss or hug when they leave, but it's always up to them. You can't teach them that their bodies are their own and then try to make them kiss strangers.

Eugh, I hate this!
A girl saying No needs to be shown it matters.
Her boundaries matter.

He's telling her that no matter what she wants, she's to be uncomfortable to make a man/other person happy.

I ask my children for kisses (6&3 DD'S) and if they say no, fine!

Who they choose to share themselves with is entirely their choice.

Honestly the sulking would piss me off as well. Instead of taking a moment,and thinking "I regret that, can see now it's was really unpleasant for my DD to do that to her" he's making melodramatic woe is me comments and sloping off.

Again, why is he centering himself and behaving in a way that's designed to have you backtrack and downplay rather than take it on board and do better?

Yep, this sounds like a man who isn't used to women disagreeing with men in general. His daughter, his wife, all of them have to do what makes men happy in the end and this is achieved by either pressuring them (as he did with your daughter) or sulking and manipulating you to stop bringing up behaviour which can damage his daughter. He simply doesn't seem to be able to comprehend that sometimes he can be in the wrong and women/girls can say no to him and others for no reason other than they simply don't want to. Discussion doesn't seem to be an option, any criticism is taken as an attack and the manipulative sulking and victimhood he exhibits is his way of ensuring that the women step back in line and stop questioning his way of doing things, even if his way of doing things is detrimental to the welfare of his daughter.

YANBU AT ALL- no child should have to make or receive physical contact with anyone if they don't choose to.

By forcing this you are teaching her to do things she doesn't want to do just to please others, which especially in the case of physical contact, could be a dangerous thing.

Tell your sexist idiot H - who doesn’t care enough about protecting his daughter - that if she is forced to kiss random men, or anyone, then he will be forced to do the same, as will any son of his.

Oh come on! Get a grip it was a tiny baby barely there touch with a long standing family friend.
Has the world really got this bad?
Let go of your pearls you are making this utter non event into a circus.
DH,if you are reading this,I feel sorry for you.

To MrGarethKeenansstapler:
You are not a monster.
You are, however, the single most important male adult in the lives of your children, particularly your daughter as she learns what is and isn't acceptable for a man to do to a woman. She is learning by example. Set a better example.
You shouldn't force your child(ren) to have to show affection to anyone, and that includes you and your wife and their grandparents and friends of same.

Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of your child(ren)? Seen a situation from their point of view? Have you ever put yourself in the shoes of a woman and seen a situation through the eyes of a girl or woman?

You're not a monster but you are learning. Everybody has to start somewhere.

Did you make your son give Pete a kiss? Did you give Pete a kiss when you were leaving?

You'll do better next time. Because you've learned from this time.

KarmaStar If today you were made to kiss a man you hardly knew, when you didn't want to, would you honestly brush it off and say its no big deal?

The child did not want to kiss him but was coerced to do so by people in control of her.

What would you call that if it was done to an adult?

Oh come on! Get a grip it was a tiny baby barely there touch with a long standing family friend.
Has the world really got this bad?
Let go of your pearls you are making this utter non event into a circus.
DH,if you are reading this,I feel sorry for you.

And I feel sorry for any small children you may have charge of. What a gross post.

Re DH - I think his main emotion is embarrassment. This is the first run in we’ve had about sexist behaviour. Normally he’s very much the man condemning other men, and now the shoe is on the other foot. Equally I think he’s embarrassed as he knows it’s another failure to stand firm against his mother/parents. I think he’s defending his embarrassment rather than because he’s certain he’s in the right if that makes sense.

Either way, that’s the first (hopefully) and last time either of my children will be coerced into kissing an adult ‘to make them happy’. And when DS is old enough I will be having a conversation with him about younger family members and how he should decline if anybody urges them to kiss him.