Not To Tell My Employer

[Charliesunnysky10]

I'm struggling financially, but my 9-5 weekday office job pays minimum wage and I'm getting further into debt. In the past 3 months I've had to replace the broken boiler, sort the roof, and pay for repairs on my car until it eventually became unviable and I had to sell it.

I want to work my way out of the debt and also get out in the evenings and weekends so I'm not home worrying, and a job with these hours seemed the perfect solution.

But I asked informally a year ago when a friend suggested I come to work with her in a local coffee shop as they were extending the hours into the evenings for a bar. I was told permission will not be granted because it may impact on my ability to do my day job.

Since then, my financial situation has worsened and I spend hours in the evening with no money to go out and wishing I could put these hours to good use. My friend's bar is now a huge success and she persuaded me to apply. I was interviewed for the job and have been offered it. The manager said they will try to give me weekend hours rather than weekdays when I'm at my day job, but there will inevitably be weekday late evenings here and there. I don't go to bed till after 11pm anyway, so it's not like this will make a big difference and I felt so happy to be getting out and meeting people again.

Today, the manager messaged me to supply reference details. I had planned not to tell my boss and if they ever found out I'd have proved I can do both roles, and I will accept the punishment.

I'm not deceitful by nature, but I'm angry that I'm not allowed to get out of debt and need to put this first. I don't want to leave this job as I've been here 10 years and my co-workers are so lovely. I like the job here too, but it just doesn't pay well.

The problem I have is the reference - can I ask my former manager who left just over a year ago? She can hardly comment favourably on my honesty when I'm being so duplicitous, not asking my current boss - she will wonder why I'm not asking them. And she may know I'm required to seek permission.

I'm in a mess and I don't know where to turn.

Taking the new job out of the equation...You've been there 10 years and still on minimum wage? When did you last ask for a pay raise? Definitely worth asking your manager/HR for a meeting to discuss your salary. Be prepared. Get other job adverts for similar roles and ask that HR consider benchmarking your role externally in accordance with the market rate.

In 10 years, has your job expanded beyond the original parameters of the initial job spec? If so, make a list of your additional areas of responsibility and what you're bringing to the team. Are there tasks that you perform quicker because of your experience in the company? Are there any opportunities for promotion to a higher salary band?

Might be worth speaking to your colleagues and checking if they are all on the same salary as you. If others are regularly asking for pay rises and you aren't, you might be the only one still on minimum wage after 10 years, and you can ask for a raise to bring you inline with colleagues who are doing work to the same or equal value.

Wait......I don't understand? Since when has an employer been legally permitted to dictate what you do with the housr when they are not paying you? Is there something in your contract about this? If not, surely it would be illegal for them to prevent you from doing whatever you want with your own time and illegal for them to sack you if you took a job? Am I missing something here?

It’s pretty common in employment contracts now

Surely to prevent you working for competitors in the same industry, not picking up a few shifts behind a bar?

Probably but if it doesn’t specify then you need to be careful.
I am not saying I agree or it’s fair but if it’s in the employment contract you signed you need to be aware of the consequences of breaching it

Yes, true.

If you’re earning minimum wage at the office, and they’re trying to control what you do in your free time, would it not be better to just work full time at the bar?
you might even earn more there if they can get you enough shifts

The biggest problem is that rights are for the rich. If you are on minimum wage, then where are you going to get the funds to enforce your rights by law ?

That shouldn't need explaining in a forum where the majority of posters are already unable to enforce their rights - whatever they may be.

Will only be taxed at a higher rate if both jobs take her earnings into the higher tax bracket, IE 50,000 a year or more. But as she is on minimum wage that is unlikely to happen.

@PartTimer923 I was on a decent wage for an 'unskilled' job when I started here just over 10 years ago but we have been taken over twice and though my role has grown, because staff have left, my salary has dropped comparatively to what is now minimum wage. I have show examples of similar roles being advertised at £2-3k higher, my experience/length of service, the cover I provide in my boss's absence but the current management undercut massively to get the contract and the budget will not allow be a payrise.

@NotOldSchool My plan is to work a full year at the bar to experience it through the seasons and be sure it's a good move for me, ask once more for a payrise on the day job and give my notice if they won't accommodate it.

Her main tax code won't change. If she works full time hours on minimum wage then her full personal allowance is used in the first / main employment. She will simply be allocated a BR tax code for her new/2nd employment which only the new employer will see.

Tax codes are only split where income from both jobs are under the personal allowance each.

Hi. I have seen your situation from both sides as an employer and an employee. You will have to sign a form when you start at pub and tick the box that says you have another job. Tax will be sorted then. It will affect your tax code but TBH many things affect a persons tax code and basically it’s none of your employers damn business. The 48 hour exemption is for one job, so not relevant in your circumstances. I have never in 35+ years of employing people in hospitality heard of an employer objecting to a second job. Take a chance, do the bar job, enjoy it and don’t worry about your miserable employer. You would be much more tired if you had children or a dependant if any other sort at home!!!

Have you talked to your main employer and explained why you need to get a second job? You have had some large expenses and are just trying to work your way out of the problem.
What if you explained that it would be short term while you sorted out your finances?
Good luck

I have recently lied on a job application (for a job I have accepted). The contract stipulates you cannot have a second job without head office permission and I have had a small WFH very p/t job (2-3 hours a week) for about 10 years. I really wanted this new job so have not put the other job on the application. The contract even says you cannot take a second job outside of your working hours without permission. Blow that, it has nothing to do with them what I do in my own time.

It’s not their decision they can’t say no! You want to work 3 jobs you bloody well can.

OP will only go into the next tax bracket if her total income hits £50,271 which, on minimum wage, definitely won't! She will just use all her personal allowance on her main job and her second job will be taxed at BR (20%).

Are you a HR/ Employment law specialist who has read OPs contract?
if not then you have no idea if they can say no or not

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already but minimum wage is rising on April 1st so doing 37.5 pw you'll earn an extra £138 PM. I know this is just a drop in the ocean with the cost of living increasing so much but it'll hopefully take a little pressure off you. The company you work for sound lucky to have you, hardworking, don't expect anyone else to bail you out etc. I hope they learn to appreciate you more!

Why do you need permission..
they don’t own you ?
what you do in your own time is non of their business ..

As long as it’s not a conflict of interest your employer has no say on what you do in your free time. I used to work constant weekends in a garage, I took on other work during the week doing a different job working from home and my manager tried to tell me I couldn’t do both, neither were linked and one job didn’t take away from the other so she didn’t have a leg to stand on.

@Dou8hnuts it's in my contract that I must obtain consent. I'd be in breach of it if I don't.

I asked permission in writing today and they said they'll give it consideration and check it's ok.

@Sue2704 oh thank you. I thought I had to opt out with BOTH employers even though I do 37.5 with one and 16 with the other.

I know you said you didn't want to leave but could the second job provide you with the same income if you done it full time. You could use that as your way to open the conversation.

" I am struggling with finances and feel I need a second job, I've found one that would allow this. My only other option is to leave this job and take up other employment that would allow me to live......"

They might agree, if they don't you have a backup to leave for.

It looks like I have to agree to opt out with BOTH employers - just seen this on ACAS...

Example of agreeing working hours across 2 jobs

Tracey works an average of 30 hours a week in a factory. Tracey tells the factory manager that they have started an extra job working 20 hours a week in a cafe.The factory manager works out that Tracey risks working more than 48 hours each week. They talk about all options and any health and safety risks, such as using machinery in the factory and being tired. They discuss the options for Tracey to opt out or reduce their overall working hours.Tracey is enjoying both jobs and the extra money they bring in, so chooses to opt out of the 48-hour weekly limit. Tracey agrees with both employers to regular check-ins to make sure that Tracey is not tired and at risk of using the machines in the factory.

I don't know the answer since you clearly like the convenience of this particular job. I do, however, think it's an absolute disgrace that a company paying someone minimum wage gets any say whatsoever in how that person spends their time out of work.

Personally, I think you need to consider long-term, and a better life comes from clearing those debts. If that means going further afield to find a job where you are valued and paid accordingly, then the benefits are two-fold in terms of both debts and future prospects. I'm in shock that anyone would accept these terms, unless you were working for a competitor it's seriously out of order.

I also believe that if you are doing something that gives you money with the benefit of social contact, your overall well-being and motivation will be enhanced, and they'd benefit from that. If they're worried about your performance, then perhaps suggest a trial period, though as I've said, if it was me, I'd be out of there on the basis of their totally unreasonable terms.