Not To Tell My Employer

[Charliesunnysky10]

I'm struggling financially, but my 9-5 weekday office job pays minimum wage and I'm getting further into debt. In the past 3 months I've had to replace the broken boiler, sort the roof, and pay for repairs on my car until it eventually became unviable and I had to sell it.

I want to work my way out of the debt and also get out in the evenings and weekends so I'm not home worrying, and a job with these hours seemed the perfect solution.

But I asked informally a year ago when a friend suggested I come to work with her in a local coffee shop as they were extending the hours into the evenings for a bar. I was told permission will not be granted because it may impact on my ability to do my day job.

Since then, my financial situation has worsened and I spend hours in the evening with no money to go out and wishing I could put these hours to good use. My friend's bar is now a huge success and she persuaded me to apply. I was interviewed for the job and have been offered it. The manager said they will try to give me weekend hours rather than weekdays when I'm at my day job, but there will inevitably be weekday late evenings here and there. I don't go to bed till after 11pm anyway, so it's not like this will make a big difference and I felt so happy to be getting out and meeting people again.

Today, the manager messaged me to supply reference details. I had planned not to tell my boss and if they ever found out I'd have proved I can do both roles, and I will accept the punishment.

I'm not deceitful by nature, but I'm angry that I'm not allowed to get out of debt and need to put this first. I don't want to leave this job as I've been here 10 years and my co-workers are so lovely. I like the job here too, but it just doesn't pay well.

The problem I have is the reference - can I ask my former manager who left just over a year ago? She can hardly comment favourably on my honesty when I'm being so duplicitous, not asking my current boss - she will wonder why I'm not asking them. And she may know I'm required to seek permission.

I'm in a mess and I don't know where to turn.

Thank you for putting that in a way that I have finally been able to get my head around! At the time I was losing around one third of my secondary income in deductions, but could not work out why and no one was ever able to explain to me in a way that I could understand, but that makes sense to me now.

So it’s in your terms and conditions of employment that you must treat their job as your main job, and you must seek permission to take a second job. Therefore if you just take a second job without mentioning it, you will likely be disciplined (if they find out). This is what we would do (public sector). We rarely if ever say no though - as long as you continue to perform well in the main job. If you blatantly didn’t ask though, when you know you should that would likely count against you in the disciplinary process.

OP what is the exact wording in your contract around second jobs? If it simply says 'seek permission' then you could argue that you fulfilled that clause by asking. I agree with others that if you had to go to an employment tribunal your employer would have to show how your new job would affect your current one, and why that was so problematic that despite your debt problems they couldn't accept it. If it's not a conflict of interest or overlapping hours then they really shouldn't be able to say no. Agree with other suggestions to discuss with HR rather than your manager. Re reference I'd give your old line manager and explain to the bar manager that your current line manager isn't keen on you taking a second job so you're working that through with him at the moment, hence not giving his details

You've had lots of amazing advice here, but just to look at your day job for a moment here, you say that you ahve been there for 10 years and are still on minimum wage.

Can you not put your evenings to better use fixing this for starters? If you shopped around, what could you be earning with a different employer firstly. Secondly, are you being held back by not holding any qualifications or something? You're clearly ambitious enough to want to earn more money, so why aren't you trying to do it between 9am and 6pm instead?

I don't think you will out yourself by saying what you do for a living, broadly. What would you need to do to move further up in rank? What qualifications do the people at your worklace who earn 30k have, that you do NOT have, and how can you spend the next whatever number of months getting them?

By all means take the bar job for 6 months to sort out this immediate crisis, but there aren't enough hours in the day for you to work your way out of this if you stay on minimum wage forever. Better to make a salary jump.

Also, have you never had a salary review? It could be that if you have been there for 10 years, you may well be indispensible (indespensible?) and if you go to them with a realistic job offer and salary bump from elsewhere they might (have to) raise your salary to keep you.

It depends what her contract says

what does your contract say about a second job?

Surely an employer cannot stop you taking on another job if it's outside of your normal hours, not in direct conflict with your day job and not for a competitor? I had a bar job alongside my very boring 9-5 hours for years when I was younger! Even now at 54 I'm considering taking on weekend work to try and make ends meet a little better. They'd better not try and stop me!
but of course they can! While it’s easy to say you think you can work all the hours extra you can, of course it will impact at some stage- you’re not a robot! I used to work with a girl who played soccer at the weekends and helped coaching too and the difference between her work on a Monday and Tuesday to the rest of the week was huge because she was understandably tired and couldn’t give her full attention or energy.

It’s good advice to speak to ACAS. I’m not sure a clause like that would be enforceable. If the worry is that a second job would tire you out too much, how do they deal with people who have demanding family commitments outside of work? Or people who commit to a time-consuming hobby etc? Would they seek to stop someone training for a marathon or similar?

I would just put cards on the table with my current employer. You need the money and they only pay you minimum wage. It’s not worth worrying about getting into trouble if you get found out. Just try and stop thinking of the second job as a big deal, point out why you need it and reassure them it’s a completely different industry etc

Your tax code would only change if you earned less than the personal allowance in your primary job (so less than £12,570 for the current tax year). If it did change it doesnt tell your employer why it has changed just that it has reduced. A reduction in a tax code could be for a short fall of tax for example so a change in the tax code wouldnt necessarily imply a second job.

Think she means a previous employer, not the current one.

@Talia99 Have to say, this is an eye-opener - it will feel like I'm being taxed more because my personal allowance has been used up. But it will still be less of a struggle.

OP, check your contract of employment if you have one. Unless it’s specified in there that you can’t take a second job, and the reason for that, then I don’t see how what you do outside of work is anything to do with your employer, as long as it doesn’t reflect badly on them, break any protocols, or impact on your ability to do your work. If it is in your contract then I think you would have a problem if they found out, as you’ve agreed to abide by the terms of the contract.

I would also go direct to HR.

I would present it more as notification than permission.

Due to the cost of living rise I will be undertaking Saturday work in a field with no conflict of interest to my position as ???

All work will be outside of my contracted hours with xxx

Taking on an additional role is necessary due to increased financial pressures and taking on a small number of additional hours will enable me to continue in my current post with xxxx.

Yours

I feel having to ask your line manager is too subjective. Consideration should be limited to whether there is a clash of interest, not matters like you might be tired. That would be for a performance review

I’d be quite blunt. You pay me minimum wage and my inability to afford heating and food will impact significantly on my ability to do my job so my options are either a pay increase here or I take on a second job. If there’s no pay increase then ask to trial a second job to measure impact.

Sorry my post is blunt - I’m angry for you that you have to take on a second job. One full time job should be enough!

I'd be open and explain that the pay is not enough, but you enjoy the role and are seeking secondary employment to improve your quality of life in a COL crisis.

its ridiculous on their part, but being honest especially if you've signed a contract is best.

Lie to your current employer, tell them you're picking up 1 x 4 hour Saturday evening shift and get a reference off your current employer. If you were going out clubbing every Saturday night how would that be any different from working in a bar in terms of "interfering" with your job?

I've heard of rules against "moonlighting" generally mentioned in the US but I've never heard of anyone in the UK ever having this issue and especially not for a minimum wage 9 - 5. If this is a small business (and even if it's not) I'd advise that you need the money, it's not for frivolous reasons (not that it should matter), you don't see how it could affect your ability to work on Monday - Friday daytime, and that you will be investigating further the legality of them being able to refuse you work outside your hours.

It's incredibly common for people to supplement their income this way. In my last office job my work mate picked up waiter shifts in a restaurant in the evenings to help pay for his wedding. Obviously no one batted an eye, why would they?

Your tax code can change for a multitude of reasons (underpayment of tax, claiming back expenses etc). Nobody at your current job will be able to see that you have a second job.

You can choose your own referee. It sounds like you worked for that person for longer than the current one anyway. Good choice.

And good luck. What you choose to do with your free time is up to you. They can no more prevent you doing paid work than paying to attend a leisure activity.

If you earn enough to use your full personal allowance in your main job, then your tax code will not change. Your second job will be Basic Rated (BR) code which will take 20% on everything, which would be accurate if you have used the full personal allowance already.

(If you do not use your full allowance then you can contact HMRC and ask them to split it over both jobs, so that any excess from Job 1 can be used in Job 2. However given your hours and rate, you would already be using your personal allowance in full in Job 1.)

If your main job is say childcare or looking after other humans where you have to be alert and on your feet all day, I do understand the concern from your current employer over tiredness and it would have an effect on your role. Working a second job is not the same as staying awake until 11pm watching the TV or chilling out with friends, in a bar you will be rushing round and on your feet, metally it may be fun and keep you awake but physically it would be demanding. If your current job isnt that physical, eg a basic desk job, then I dont see the problem.

How much does the bar job pay ? Would you be better off working there full time (plus i imagine more option of overtime?).

its a bit insane being on NMW for 10 years, OP honestly you could do bunch of remote customer service jobs for more money. they're taking the absolute piss out of you

Ask a colleague, I've done the for people I work along side so no need for your line manager to know.

OP i would call the Acas helpline and check before you inform your employer - not super convinced they have the power to stop you taking other roles, so get their take on what the legal requirements are before you ask permission for something they (perhaps) can’t even enforce