Not To Tell My Employer

[Charliesunnysky10]

I'm struggling financially, but my 9-5 weekday office job pays minimum wage and I'm getting further into debt. In the past 3 months I've had to replace the broken boiler, sort the roof, and pay for repairs on my car until it eventually became unviable and I had to sell it.

I want to work my way out of the debt and also get out in the evenings and weekends so I'm not home worrying, and a job with these hours seemed the perfect solution.

But I asked informally a year ago when a friend suggested I come to work with her in a local coffee shop as they were extending the hours into the evenings for a bar. I was told permission will not be granted because it may impact on my ability to do my day job.

Since then, my financial situation has worsened and I spend hours in the evening with no money to go out and wishing I could put these hours to good use. My friend's bar is now a huge success and she persuaded me to apply. I was interviewed for the job and have been offered it. The manager said they will try to give me weekend hours rather than weekdays when I'm at my day job, but there will inevitably be weekday late evenings here and there. I don't go to bed till after 11pm anyway, so it's not like this will make a big difference and I felt so happy to be getting out and meeting people again.

Today, the manager messaged me to supply reference details. I had planned not to tell my boss and if they ever found out I'd have proved I can do both roles, and I will accept the punishment.

I'm not deceitful by nature, but I'm angry that I'm not allowed to get out of debt and need to put this first. I don't want to leave this job as I've been here 10 years and my co-workers are so lovely. I like the job here too, but it just doesn't pay well.

The problem I have is the reference - can I ask my former manager who left just over a year ago? She can hardly comment favourably on my honesty when I'm being so duplicitous, not asking my current boss - she will wonder why I'm not asking them. And she may know I'm required to seek permission.

I'm in a mess and I don't know where to turn.

I work in the public sector and my contract stated I had to seek permission for a second job, however there was no issue getting this approved. As long as it doesn't impact on your main role there is no reason for them to refuse.
I haven't had a change in tax code though, my tax free allowance applies to my main job and I pay full tax on my second.

I have a similar clause in my contract and also one about having other business interests. I declared my other business interest and they didn't bat an eyelid because there is no conflict of interest and no chance of me bringing the organisation into disrepute. I'm sure your clause will be for the same reason. If it makes you feel more comfortable, you don't need to tell your current employer how may hours you'll work. Just say your friend asked if you could help out when needed. Good luck.

Tell them you need paying 1.75 times what you’re currently being paid, or you need to take an extra job!

this will be about your extra net for the extra hours you are going to work, plus presumably some tips!

that way you aren’t seeking permission, you are telling them it’s the only way you can survive financially.

…… you never know - they might pay you more???

Could you get full time hours at the bar instead. - and leave other job?
Would that pay more?

Your current employer is being unreasonable. They pay minimum wage and whilst they have told you that you can't get a second job, which I find absolutely disgusting, you sell your own labour. They don't own you.

I'd be looking to get another full-time job which either pays better, or 'allows' you to take on a second job.

Fuck that, I wouldn't have any employer telling me what I could and couldn't do outside of work, no matter how much I enjoyed the job. I might be being naive here, but I don't think that is a common thing.

I also hate to throw a spanner in the works, but if you have 2 separate jobs, I think it will affect your tax code, certainly initially. Your current employer may pick up on this.

You are also not being duplicitous or deceitful. I can't begin to imagine someone who is working, and wants to work more, as being described as duplicitous and deceitful. Give yourself a break @Charliesunnysky10, you've been honest and you are just trying to pay your bills. You aren't either of those words.

I worked evenings in a pub when I first started in the Civil Seervice, was supposed to ask permission but never did, the only thing will be if your tax code changes.

Are you in a trade union? Ask their advice. If not join one before you do anything else. Best of luck.

I think you need to find out if it’s actually a legal thing that your company can say that you can’t work a second job. Just because someone puts something in your contract it doesn’t make it legal or enforceable. But you need to make sure first.

Call ACAS and ask for their advice. Ask about what constitutes constructive dismissal. Put your request to your manager in writing and tell them that the col crisis means you are struggling financially and it is causing you stress. Suggest you do the second job for three months and if they see a deterioration in your work you will reconsider the second job. If your manager refuses your request ask for specific reasons and then go to HR and make the request to them explaining why you need the other job.

Constructive dismissal may be pleaded because they are forcing you out of your main job by paying little and being unreasonable about the second job.

I was in a job where my manager was legally in the wrong, and so were HR but because I was able to tell them how they were wrong, and sent them links to websites as well as quote ACAS, they had to back down.

Good luck

Your line manager is an idiot: how dare they assume that you won't be as effective because of a second job? You should at least get the opportunity to try it and see how it goes. You've given them 10 years loyal service, you deserve a bit of compassion and consideration. Even from a business perspective, can they not see that the stress of your current financial position might equally affect your performance? It sounds like you don't want to rock the boat which is understandable, but maybe it's time to challenge the backward, lazy thinking of a daft line manager and an employer who doesn't pay you what you're worth (which is why you're in this situation in the first place!)
I hope everything works out for you.

If you had a better paid day job OP you'd be able to afford public transport. The best way out of your situation is to find a better paid day job.

My employer does not allow second jobs but that’s because they want us available whenever they want us to be which I do not agree with. I have a second job but just don’t tell them . As long as I’m never late or too tired for my first job, it’s none of their business. The way I see it is that they do not pay me for 24 hours a day so they do not get to dictate what I do for my entire day. I am not owned by them .

Surely if you’ve worked at your job for 10 years and they value you you should be payed more than minimum wage! I’d take on the second job AND ask them for a pay rise!

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@Apple95 if she works in the public sector the job will be on a scale ( so might be point 10-15 for example)and the employee is paid according to where they are on that scale. Usually starting at the bottom of that scale and working up to the top year by year. The only way of getting a pay rise is to apply for and be awarded a job that is on a different scale. I know she might not be public sector , but that is how it works, it's also very common in the public sector to have a clause about no second jobs.

If the extra job isn't in the same field as the current one, it's unlikely they'll refuse.
They can't use you being tired as a reason as surely they'd never employ parents otherwise?!

Is it in your contract that you need permission to take on another job? If not its yoyr managers opinion and doesn't count. If it is then you may be on a more difficult footing. Either way, I would be upfront with my manager and say I can't make ends meet, I don't want to leave so want to use my spare time to earn money. I've been offered a job and I'd like a work reference from you. If yoyr manager is against it and getting permission is in your contract ask them to allow you a 3 month trial. If it isnt then point this out politely ie yoyr manager cannot stop you, you're talking to them merely for a reference.

Also, being upfront means if anyone from work sees you, you won't be in the soup!

You can always ring HMRC and ask all your tax allowance to be put on your main job and pay Basic Rate tax on the second job - they did that to me in the end as I never earned enough on my second job to go passed the allowance and kept having to give me a small tax rebate. My tax code still shows as the full allowance on my main job (however my job are aware I have other employment as I have to declare it).

We have this clause in our contract. It is to ensure people have enough time to rest and recuperate. I would anticipate they would take action if they found out you had deceived them, especially given you have asked permission / sought advice and been turned down informally. In fact, the deceit aspect would be very important for us as it would not align with our code of conduct.

Another aspect for us would be if there is a need for all hands to the pump situation. We know who has caring responsibilities, e.g. leaving on time for nursery collection. Of course, people may say I’m going to the theatre, meeting friends, but they wouldn’t say this every evening.

I would say it often becomes apparent if people try to do work or start a business on the side. Phone calls in the office, not getting through the volume of work expected or the quality dropping. Tiredness. Managers would notice and talk to each other. Colleagues would mention it to managers if they thought the colleague wasn’t pulling their weight.

I do, however, sympathise with your situation. If you were my member of staff I would be looking at how we could help you. Help you prepare for promotion, look at any bonuses for which I could nominate you (while being fair to your colleagues), nominate you for overtime or another role which attracts a 10-15% bonus for being on call and doing extra hours. We also have a charity and a counselling service for members of staff in difficulties.

If you want to approach them again, I would start small - suggest 1 weekend day every second week?

I think be honest with the bar job but don’t tell your office job. Everyone is struggling more and more financially now, so they should understand. As long as you can prove to the bar manager that you’re able to do a good job, they shouldn’t care whether you work during the day as well. I wouldn’t tell the office job manager out of spite- you tried opening up and they shut you down, thinking they can tell you what to do in your free time.

I work in payroll/HR, I wouldn't investigate a tax change and wouldn't work out someone had a second job from it, or care really. Minimum wage workers always have a side gig, they're just worried about WTD. Don't tell them, get reference from previous manager, you'll no doubt be fine. I know loads of our guys work as taxi drivers in their spare time, only one has declared 🤷

Could you take it up with hr? It's hardly a normal contract term these days and likely to be considered unreasonable if tested at law (not that that would help you). It's basically saying they own you outside of work: it's meant to stop you moonlighting for a direct competitor but this sounds like they could stop you volunteering, helping a friend out, babysitting or anything. Is there anything hr can clarify as to what can be reasonable to refuse? You could be studying for a degree part time and that would impact your day job more....
I think I would tell hr you consider it unreasonable to refuse you and that taking action against you for that would likely be deemed illegal in a tribunal situation. Just because a term is in your contract does not make it legally valid. A court or tribunal can rule a term to be unreasonable.

This isn't advice in any shape or form, but rather my experience as I've done what you are proposing.

I had a full time job (8:30-4:30) and took on a part time job at my local cinema in the evenings and on Saturdays. My second job was taxed at BR, so my main job tax code was never changed. I never told my main job that I worked elsewhere in the evening as it was 25 miles/50 mins drive away, and I was confident no one I know from work would ever see me there. I didn't see the need of explaining myself when it was unlikely to ever be an issue or a conflict (I appreciate this view however this may not stack up for others).

I did this for over two years. My second job wasn't tiring for me- in fact, it was more like going to see my friends for a few hours so it never affected my concentration/motivation at my main job.

Only caveat I would say is that if I wasn't 100% confident that no one in my main job would see me working at my second, I never would have done it without pulling someone aside to ask if it was okay.

On a slightly unrelated note, I did ramp it up for a six month period and also took on another early part time job as an online shopper for a supermarket. While fun racing around the aisles, I have to admit having three jobs did start to wear me down as I was working the equivalent of two full time jobs, if not slightly more. I don't recommend doing that!

Tough shit - if they paid her properly she wouldn't be forced into
But she isnt forced into anything she chooses to work at that job whatever it may be And those are the terms they have stated, no 2nd job. Yes she could argue she is underpaid but if they have said though thats the price we pay then its her choice to leave it or stay. OP need to get another full time job that pays more but she doesnt want to do that.