Not To Tell My Employer

[Charliesunnysky10]

I'm struggling financially, but my 9-5 weekday office job pays minimum wage and I'm getting further into debt. In the past 3 months I've had to replace the broken boiler, sort the roof, and pay for repairs on my car until it eventually became unviable and I had to sell it.

I want to work my way out of the debt and also get out in the evenings and weekends so I'm not home worrying, and a job with these hours seemed the perfect solution.

But I asked informally a year ago when a friend suggested I come to work with her in a local coffee shop as they were extending the hours into the evenings for a bar. I was told permission will not be granted because it may impact on my ability to do my day job.

Since then, my financial situation has worsened and I spend hours in the evening with no money to go out and wishing I could put these hours to good use. My friend's bar is now a huge success and she persuaded me to apply. I was interviewed for the job and have been offered it. The manager said they will try to give me weekend hours rather than weekdays when I'm at my day job, but there will inevitably be weekday late evenings here and there. I don't go to bed till after 11pm anyway, so it's not like this will make a big difference and I felt so happy to be getting out and meeting people again.

Today, the manager messaged me to supply reference details. I had planned not to tell my boss and if they ever found out I'd have proved I can do both roles, and I will accept the punishment.

I'm not deceitful by nature, but I'm angry that I'm not allowed to get out of debt and need to put this first. I don't want to leave this job as I've been here 10 years and my co-workers are so lovely. I like the job here too, but it just doesn't pay well.

The problem I have is the reference - can I ask my former manager who left just over a year ago? She can hardly comment favourably on my honesty when I'm being so duplicitous, not asking my current boss - she will wonder why I'm not asking them. And she may know I'm required to seek permission.

I'm in a mess and I don't know where to turn.

@EightChalk Yes, it looks like I'll have to come clean and this is a good way to approach it. Thank you.

@gertrudemortimer far too many excellent points in your message to mention individually, but massive thank you!

While I agree it’s unfair you can’t take another job and can’t see why the bar work would impact your main work of its in your contract you do need to be cautious

OP why don’t you speak to your line manager and say that you’ve had a lot of unexpected but necessary outgoings of late so you’re going to work in a bar on Friday and Saturday nights to clear down the debt. And it won’t affect your ability to do your day job as you’ll have plenty of downtime on Sundays to recuperate.
They never need to know that you are working evenings as well.

On a separate note though, are there no other jobs you could do in an office that pays more than minimum wage? I could understand the concern of a second job impacting your ability to do your primary job if they paid you a proper living salary. I doubt my firm would allow me to take a second role. But they pay me enough so I don’t need to. Your company clearly does not.

Good luck.

One thing to bear in mind is that you will be taxed at a higher rate on a second job, I think I was losing somewhere around 35% of my income when I started my secondary job, so I went self employed and just send an invoice. I can claim my expenses/mileage/uniform costs etc against my earnings and pay less tax, legally and earn more.

I do the self assessment myself, altho a good friend who is accountant looked over the first couple of returns for me. I probably don't claim as much as I could, but its easy enough to do.

If you have the option to do that, it might be worth considering.

Could you ask your new employer if you can be contracted to Saturdays? Tell them you'll be available for OT on such and such days / times. Then you are approaching your current employer with a job contract that is only Saturdays and you have the freedom to pick up extra shifts without having to get permission. In future you can change your contract to more hours if you want it in writing and you won't need a reference then.

It's mental that a minimum wage job has anything in the contract about a second job.

If only the OP was an MP, eh ?

I would ask permission & say it's a weekend job. They don't need to know it's potentially weekdays as well.

If you take the job they will find out through the HMRC code as others have said.

I do think they are being very unfair with their contract terms especially as it's low paid. They don't own you.

You are not taxed at a higher rate but they tax you for both jobs on the one main income. At least I've never been taxed more! Sometimes your tax may take a while to catch up but they have always reimbursed me.

Why don’t you just be honest with them and say your employer has said in the past no second job (check you are not breaking your contract) and can your friend give a reference for you

Been decade or so but I worked in social housing before kids, when I wanted a second job it had to be approved (as per contract) to show it didn't conflict. So working in the local pub, then having to deliver ASBOs to those same people for being loud drunks outside their house after closing hours would be an issue. Being a youth worker was not.

Sorry, yes I might have got my phrasing mixed up, it might not be the higher tax rate but I definitely paid more tax on my second job than my main job, and I never had it reimbursed. HMRC always told me that I would pay more tax on additional income if both were PAYE.

I do not profess to be an expert but I was paying extra costs, such as petrol, parking, clothing etc for my second job and after seeking advice from my accountant friend (who also did the secondary job with me) it seemed the sensible way forward for my situation.

I totally get your frustration at the debt but, if you take the bar job as well without telling the day job, what will you do if the day boss walks in? From what our say about not using public transport to work, home and both jobs must be fairly close together so it could be a possibility.

@SleepingStandingUp that reminds me of the time I had an incredibly drunk guy as a patient when I was a support worker after seeing him drink the night away in the club until 6am. I think he thought he was seeing things when he saw me!

@DeltaAlphaDelta79 I'm not an expert either but nobody should be paying more from two low paid jobs than if that income was from one stream. It should even out so you are paying what you would if it was all one income. Happy to accept I'm wrong though! It wouldn't surprise me if they wanted to punish low paid workers for trying to exist.

@Clarinet1 Yes, it's a possibility, but I'd say that the tax code will be the thing gives it away.

I agree nobody should be paying more taxes on a second job, but that was how it seemed to me, plus as mentioned, I did have additional expenses others might not.

Also happy to accept I am wrong too 😀

I found this online which might be useful

second job advice

@DeltaAlphaDelta79 You make a good point about being self employed but it's a whole new world to me and for the time being Id probably just be better taking this local work, till I get in better shape.

This isn’t necessarily true if both jobs are PAYE. I have two PAYE jobs (no option of claiming to be self employed because I’m clearly not). I am taxed at 20% up to the normal amount of earnings then at 40% on any amount over that. There is no special ‘35% tax in a second job’ rate.

Yep completely understand. Just something I hadn't realised when I started. I do appreciate it might not be applicable to your situation tho.

I’d consider asking HR for permission rather than your manager. Contract/employment law is that clauses are unenforceable if they are not reasonable and proportionate. HR’s understanding of employment contracts (and duty of care towards staff) is likely to be more nuanced than your line manager’s.

As others have said, position it as a casual weekend gig, and explain how a) your financial circumstances make it necessary and b) it won’t impact your current position or ability to perform.

Give the new job details of your HR dept and your previous boss. They may well just be reassured by the fact that you’ve got referees, or they might just call up old boss for an informal chat (even though that’s not good practice, IME it’s often done in hospitality to get a feel for the candidate).

I dont see why the second job needs a reference. Can't you get one from a previous employer and explain your current employer is being awkward about a second job. And ask to be paid cash in hand.

This is an absolute pisstake. They don't own you and cannot dictate what you do outside of your contracted hours. They may like to think they can, but they can't. Get the reference from your previous manager and if your current work find out and have an issue with it, tell them they can pay you more.

I agree - they aren't your mum, demanding that you go to bed early on a school night. If they deem those evening hours essential for you to be able to meet the demands of your job with them and dictate what you can/can't do with them, they should pay you for them as well; but no, they want it both ways.

Some jobs do have more restrictive requirements and fair 'exclusivity' clauses (albeit normally based around potential conflicts of interest), but they treat you as a professional and pay accordingly.

An employer paying NMW is telling you loud and clear that they wish they could pay you less - in accordance with how little they value you - and the only reason they can't is that the government has actively stepped in to prevent people like them from exploiting you.

the tax thing isnt that you are being taxed more on the second job, it is just that you have used up all your tax free allowance on the first job so all of your income is taxed o the second job.

Example below - with simplified figures for ease of explanation - so not real tax amounts)
Say both jobs pay £1000
Tax free allowance is £500

First job you pay £100 tax (1000-500 = 500 which is taxable and 20% of 500 is 100)
Second job you pay £200 tax (you have no tax free allowance so 20% of 1000 is 200)
So overall you take homw £1700 and pay £300 tax.

If you only had 1 job that paid you £2000 you would still pay £300 tax as 2000-500 tax free =£1500. 20% of £1500 =£300. So would still be bringing home £1700 it is just that with 2 jobs it looks like you get taxed more on the 2nd job. Is is not because you have 2 jobs, just that your income has risen. You will pay more tax on any increase of income over your tax free allowance regardless of where it came from.

Fair enough. Happy to be corrected. I know that I was losing more than I was expecting on my second job, and it was getting to the point it was becoming not worth my while.

Call ACAS to ask them whether that clause is permitted, and whether your employer can refuse permission in this case.

Sometimes people put things in contracts which can't be legally enforced, and then you're not bound by it (they'll generally put in a severability clause so that even if one bit of the contract isn't valid then all the rest holds)

That type of clause seems intended to stop you from eg working for a competitor.

It doesn't seem at all reasonable for them to refuse it when there is no clash with your working time, and this is purely your choice about what to do with your free time.

And if it isn't reasonable, it might well not be binding. But do check with ACAS.