Not To Tell My Employer

[Charliesunnysky10]

I'm struggling financially, but my 9-5 weekday office job pays minimum wage and I'm getting further into debt. In the past 3 months I've had to replace the broken boiler, sort the roof, and pay for repairs on my car until it eventually became unviable and I had to sell it.

I want to work my way out of the debt and also get out in the evenings and weekends so I'm not home worrying, and a job with these hours seemed the perfect solution.

But I asked informally a year ago when a friend suggested I come to work with her in a local coffee shop as they were extending the hours into the evenings for a bar. I was told permission will not be granted because it may impact on my ability to do my day job.

Since then, my financial situation has worsened and I spend hours in the evening with no money to go out and wishing I could put these hours to good use. My friend's bar is now a huge success and she persuaded me to apply. I was interviewed for the job and have been offered it. The manager said they will try to give me weekend hours rather than weekdays when I'm at my day job, but there will inevitably be weekday late evenings here and there. I don't go to bed till after 11pm anyway, so it's not like this will make a big difference and I felt so happy to be getting out and meeting people again.

Today, the manager messaged me to supply reference details. I had planned not to tell my boss and if they ever found out I'd have proved I can do both roles, and I will accept the punishment.

I'm not deceitful by nature, but I'm angry that I'm not allowed to get out of debt and need to put this first. I don't want to leave this job as I've been here 10 years and my co-workers are so lovely. I like the job here too, but it just doesn't pay well.

The problem I have is the reference - can I ask my former manager who left just over a year ago? She can hardly comment favourably on my honesty when I'm being so duplicitous, not asking my current boss - she will wonder why I'm not asking them. And she may know I'm required to seek permission.

I'm in a mess and I don't know where to turn.

Obviously no one batted an eye, why would they?

Because if it’s written into the contract of employment that no second jobs are allowed, the OP has agreed to that and if she lies and gets found out, she’s liable to be fired.

Do you have to ask your manager for permission or could it go to HR? At my work HR would normally deal with this and would not refuse permission unless it was likely to cause a conflict of interest i.e. working for a competitor.

If they really don’t want their staff taking on a second job they need to pay more.

I would talk to Acas regarding the reasonableness of the clause in your contract. Of course employers can specify they you don’t work for a competitor or anything to the companies detriment but a blanket ban is wrong. Then take that to HR.

I thought the idea to ask for an offer stating Saturdays was a good one.

The tax code may change but the employer only gets the actual tax code they don’t get the document thst you get which shows how it’s worked out and that lists the employments. Do they’d only know the tax code has changed not why, you could have a rental property for example and he having that income adjusted in your code

ok,I agree that they may find out through HMRC and better to be legit

I would prepare a written case. Not a chat. Make it formal and state you need a written response . I’d have a look at your wage when you signed contract 10 years ago, and then what you’re earning now. Then compare that to inflation rises over same period o see in real terms how your wage has decreased . Put that in your letter, And state you simply cannot manage, but love and committed to your job so must find ways of increasing your income . If you have evidence of what you’ve contributed to your employment in terms of benefits that they wouldn’t get by employing someone else then state it here.blow your trumpet - sell yourself to make it clear you are worth something to them to be flexible.
state, in order to continue in the job you love and benefits them by xyz, You are therefore asking permission to do a maximum of hours, mostly weekends with a max of 1( or whatever) eveningin week working hours of x till y. This doesn’t have conflict of interest and here’s why… (state industry rtc).state It won’t impact your ability to work as you could be going to bar and actually drinking in those same hours, as many people do, or working out hard training physically which many people do and is usually praised as good for health.

state you need them to provide business case if they refuse

keep it unemotional. State facts. Present your business case so to speak

if they say no you’ll have to go back first and insist on pay rise . If they refuse that you can either involve unions, raise a grievance or finally if all else fails find new work

Tough shit - if they paid her properly she wouldn't be forced into this!

@Charliesunnysky10 I know you like it where you are and it suits you in many ways, but 10 years on NMW is an absolute disgrace. There's other workplaces you could be happy in too where you would be rewarded fairly for your work.

My 19 year old complains bitterly that he is only paid NMW for his p/t job which he fits around his uni studies.

Your current employer would have some front to prevent you from taking on this second job!! In my organisation you do have to make the employer aware, but unless it was a major conflict of interest I can't imagine the request being declined.

Don't waste another 10 years. It's no good having to scrape a living. You deserve more. Go get it.

OP my tax code changed when I started a second

Does your current employment contract preclude you working for anyone else?

I'm a bit confused as to why it's an issue, or why you'd have to "prove you're capable of doing both roles", like a child who has to prove they'll get up without complaint in the morning if they're allowed stay up late.
What punishment can they possibly mete out to you??

Contractual restrictions on having a second job are normally for two reasons:

Firstly, because of the working time directive. If you are 'in' the WTD then the two jobs together need to not exceed 48 hours in a week. However if you have opted out then this won't apply - your contract with your employer should tell you whether you are in/out.

Secondly, because of the potential for conflicts of interest. Your second job needs to not directly conflict with your main role. For example, if you worked for Barclays Bank as your main job, they would be pretty unhappy if you took on a part time role in Santander's call centre.

To address this, you notify your employer in writing that you need to take a second job for financial reasons, and confirm that the employment is bar work and therefore will not present a conflict of interest with your day job. However before you send this to them, you need to clarify where you stand with the WTD - are you 'in' and if so, will the bar job hours take you over 48 working hours in a week? Or will the bar job mean that you are working in your 11 hour rest break between your day job shifts?

PS - agree with others that you have a longer term issue to sort out though, as 10 years on NMW is crazy unless you genuinely cannot find anything else.

But as I and other people have said people do all sorts of stuff when they get home hall tire you out more than a second job 1 or 2 evenings a week
examples:
caring for disabled child being single parent- a lot more stress as well
caring for partner with severe and enduring illness - I know from personal experience being at work all day was easier than caring for partner in evenings and nights
serious gym addictions
training for marathons when you’ve only been running 5ish last 3 years
having a 6 month old baby and still breastfeeding - that was standard maximum maternity leave limit when I had kids
People who have gambling habits with all that stress and adrenaline running till early hours of the morning
menopausal women who have very poor sleep quality for years on end - like 4-5 hours unbroken per night

and you could go on and on.

they need to have a business case to explain why she can’t. And pretty much guarantee that in the OPs circumstances they’d struggle, given not working occasionally does not guarantee n any shape or form workforce is rested,relaxed or whatever they’re expecting

lying awake at night with high anxiety about how to pay bills doesn’t make for employees at peak performance either

Then she can sue them for unfair dismissal and would likely win. It’ll be down to them to prove her extra job impacted her role there.

https://gateleyplc.com/insight/quick-reads/employees-working-a-second-job-what-you-need-to-know/

Then she can take them to court for unfair dismissal and would likely win. It’ll be down to them to prove her extra job impacted her role with them.

https://gateleyplc.com/insight/quick-reads/employees-working-a-second-job-what-you-need-to-know/

Just to clarify, when I came here 10 years ago I was paid a decent wage for an 'unskilled' job. 4 years ago it was taken over, and my wage has risen by such a low amount each year, it is now NMW. You're quite correct though, if they have to replace me they will struggle to attract someone to the job at NMW.

I have asked twice for my salary to be increased more in line with inflation, but they have said that there is no budget for this.

It will be difficult for me to leave or get qualified to do something else as I have no car now and these higher paid call centre jobs are not walkable for me. I had worked out that paying for transport would take away any extra I earn.

While the employers are not super-nice, the other employees are, and I like the job itself so I'm wary of leaving, even for something local in case it doesn't work out. I'm happy here.

When I was first looking to obtain permission (my contract says I must obtain permission, not just seek it) I did so with HR and they replied saying 'it must be approved by my line manager' so no short cut to HR.

The Bar job is also NMW but there are tips and Overtime at a higher rate of pay. I might look at doing that full time once I've worked there a year or so and seen what it's like all year round - if they offer me the chance.

On the reference know lot companies now will only give a factual one liner worked here from X date.

Then she can take them to court for unfair dismissal and would likely win. It’ll be down to them to prove her extra job impacted her role with them.

https://gateleyplc.com/insight/quick-reads/employees-working-a-second-job-what-you-need-to-know/

She has said the second job is part of a big chain now I think. No way would they pay CIH.

I’d also add, that even if not going out of an evening, a childcare worker could be drinking heavily that makes them unfit to work with little kids. No contract would state an adult couldn’t drink !
we generally trust people to manage their lifestyle so it doesn’t impact on their work performance
if it does, then that’s usually discovered through performance improvements programs or interventions as it becomes an issue at work. Mployees then can be told to stop letting x or y impact their performance or face disciplinary hearing and potential firing.
so by is it different about working additional jobs ?

as people say unless theirs a specific conflict of interest it inquest to both jobs, it is necessarily intrusive

Then she can take them to court for unfair dismissal and would likely win. It’ll be down to them to prove her extra job impacted her role with them.

https://gateleyplc.com/insight/quick-reads/employees-working-a-second-job-what-you-need-to-know/

A minimum wage employer has a brass fucking neck demanding exclusive rights to your labour.

Just give a character reference, explaining that your day job will look askance at you trying to top up your income elsewhere.

I always thought that refusal to allow you a second job had to be reasonable. Ie they don’t want you working for a competitor on the side. Or say you had a job that requires you operating heavy machinery during the day but having an overnight security job which would mean you don’t get the correct amount of sleep to do your day job. I don’t think that would apply in this case and they would not be allowed to reasonably withhold permission.

I'd ask but downplay it as a couple of hours on a Saturday to help a mate out.
Imply it's not a big deal at all, more like a hobby. I am a terrible liar though but practice beforehand or send an email. It sucks you have to go through this though. Hopefully, work will be ok about it.

You say this is your friends bar? Can't she just overrule and get you in there?

We have this same clause in our employment contracts. It’s quite common. We also monitor people’s tax codes and it’s flagged if they have a second job.

If I were you I’d write an email to your manager explaining that whilst you love your job, with the current cost of living crisis you are struggling to make ends meet. You have been offered a job with a few extra hours on the weekend that you would like to take. Assure them that it won’t affect your ability to do your job and you are happy for this to be kept under review.

If they say no, ask for a pay rise.

The current financial environment has changed for everyone since you last asked so you might be surprised, they might be more understanding and give you permission now?