Not To Tell My Employer

[Charliesunnysky10]

I'm struggling financially, but my 9-5 weekday office job pays minimum wage and I'm getting further into debt. In the past 3 months I've had to replace the broken boiler, sort the roof, and pay for repairs on my car until it eventually became unviable and I had to sell it.

I want to work my way out of the debt and also get out in the evenings and weekends so I'm not home worrying, and a job with these hours seemed the perfect solution.

But I asked informally a year ago when a friend suggested I come to work with her in a local coffee shop as they were extending the hours into the evenings for a bar. I was told permission will not be granted because it may impact on my ability to do my day job.

Since then, my financial situation has worsened and I spend hours in the evening with no money to go out and wishing I could put these hours to good use. My friend's bar is now a huge success and she persuaded me to apply. I was interviewed for the job and have been offered it. The manager said they will try to give me weekend hours rather than weekdays when I'm at my day job, but there will inevitably be weekday late evenings here and there. I don't go to bed till after 11pm anyway, so it's not like this will make a big difference and I felt so happy to be getting out and meeting people again.

Today, the manager messaged me to supply reference details. I had planned not to tell my boss and if they ever found out I'd have proved I can do both roles, and I will accept the punishment.

I'm not deceitful by nature, but I'm angry that I'm not allowed to get out of debt and need to put this first. I don't want to leave this job as I've been here 10 years and my co-workers are so lovely. I like the job here too, but it just doesn't pay well.

The problem I have is the reference - can I ask my former manager who left just over a year ago? She can hardly comment favourably on my honesty when I'm being so duplicitous, not asking my current boss - she will wonder why I'm not asking them. And she may know I'm required to seek permission.

I'm in a mess and I don't know where to turn.

[Charliesunnysky10]

Just to clarify, it was about 7 months ago I asked my current boss informally if I could take secondary employment, not a year.

[Cherryblossoms85]

I would just explain the situation to the bar, you can supply a character reference but you can't supply a current employer reference as you don't want them to know. Surely can't be that unusual a situation. Also, I wonder if it's worth writing to your MP, this is quite a topical situation given they're all so keen on employment and plugging skills shortages - why should your employer prevent you.

[LadyHaHaHeeHaw]

Blimey , do you work for MI5 ? Ask whichever manager ex or otherwise that will give you a good reference
Best of luck @Charliesunnysky10

[Butchyrestingface]

I think you're making a bigger deal out of this than needs be. Just ask your former manager for a reference.

I'm freelance and often have to go way back for references (not necessarily job application related). Not had any major problems.

[MaggieFS]

Re, the reference, that's easy enough to explain. As pp has said, you can supply a character reference, and your friend should be able to vouch for you too?

Have you checked your main job contract doesn't prohibit you taking on another job? That would be my concern. As long as it doesn't it's not really any of their business how you choose to spend your evenings and weekends, as long as you turn up to work on time, fit and able to work.

[Charliesunnysky10]

@Cherryblossoms85 Thank you. I just don't want the bar manager's first impression of me to be that I'm a high-maintenance and a bit suspect.

I'm a bit worried that writing to my MP will open up a can of worms. I don't want to cause a fuss. I know this doesn't help the bigger problem though.

[America12]

@LadyHaHaHeeHaw

Blimey , do you work for MI5 ? Ask whichever manager ex or otherwise that will give you a good reference
Best of luck @Charliesunnysky10

They've said she can't have a second job

[blobby10]

Surely an employer cannot stop you taking on another job if it's outside of your normal hours, not in direct conflict with your day job and not for a competitor? I had a bar job alongside my very boring 9-5 hours for years when I was younger! Even now at 54 I'm considering taking on weekend work to try and make ends meet a little better. They'd better not try and stop me!

[Cherryblossoms85]

Just present it positively - please find attached the reference as requested from my former manager. If they dig in for current manager then explain that you'd prefer not to ask them. Or take the plunge and tell your manager outright that you need extra money so you're taking an extra job. If they don't like it they can pay you more!!

[Obeythedancecommander]

Ask your employer again and say you will be doing weekends only and can you have a reference please

[Charliesunnysky10]

@MaggieFS day job contract says I must seen permission for secondary employment. The Bar want at least 1 professional reference (it's owned by a bigger company now).

@Butchyrestingface Yes, I feared I might be making a big deal - it's just I tend to do the right thing and this is a bit outside my comfort zone.

@LadyHaHaHeeHaw Hahaha MI5 Thank you for your good wishes

[MaggieFS]

In which case can you seek permission but potentially imply it's for a Saturday job?

If you do this without permission you'll be in breach of contract and risk having no job at all. Given you'll be working in a public place, isn't it a bit risky?

[DeltaAlphaDelta79]

@Charliesunnysky10

@MaggieFS day job contract says I must seen permission for secondary employment. The Bar want at least 1 professional reference (it's owned by a bigger company now).

@Butchyrestingface Yes, I feared I might be making a big deal - it's just I tend to do the right thing and this is a bit outside my comfort zone.

@LadyHaHaHeeHaw Hahaha MI5 Thank you for your good wishes

Does your contract say what will happen if you don't seek permission, or do secondary work without it?

I have had a second, part time job for about 20 years and always ask about it in interview when I have changed my main full time job. It has never been an issue, even tho there is a low likelihood of causing a conflict of interest.

Most employers are keen that I have the skills acquired in my secondary job as they can come in handy.

I would definitely ask again and reiterate that it wont affect your day job, and that will always come first. Maybe they will accept a trial period of a few months and review it then.

I would need to be earning a lot more money to give up my second job, which I have never been able to get in my day job, but part of it for me is the social aspect and extra skills I have learned.

[Charliesunnysky10]

@Cherryblossoms85 They won't pay me any more - my hardship doesn't equate to a payrise. I'd have to leave and get another day job to be paid what I'm worth, but I have no car, and can't afford public transport so the options are limited. This job is walkable and love the people here. So for that alone I'm extremely lucky and prepared to take the hit on pay.

[Charliesunnysky10]

@DeltaAlphaDelta79 Thank you - that's good to know! It doesn't say what the penalty would be but I'll be in breach or my contract so be disciplined but probably not sacked as it's not gross misconduct.

[Charliesunnysky10]

@MaggieFS Yes...that's a really good idea! Thank you!

[Cherryblossoms85]

I'm not sure you're being realistic. If your contract says you must seek permission, and you don't, you can be dismissed. You have a clear reason and justification to seek additional work, but if they won't allow it, they probably can terminate your employment. Whether they should is a different matter but they don't sound that "great" if they pay little and don't let you make that up in your own time.

[Lazyteens]

I don’t want to worry you unduly, but would your main job be able to tell that you have a second job via your tax code that may change? Perhaps someone with payroll knowledge could comment? I had two jobs last year and it was reflected in my tax code.

[LadyHaHaHeeHaw]

Erm, yes @America12 , thank you ???

[Reugny]

@Lazyteens

I don’t want to worry you unduly, but would your main job be able to tell that you have a second job via your tax code that may change? Perhaps someone with payroll knowledge could comment? I had two jobs last year and it was reflected in my tax code.

Yes your tax code will change.

Depending on the diligence of your current employer it can take anything from a couple of months until the next tax year.

I had a medium size employer who took 2 months to do it there as I know people who work for different NHS trusts and it always takes until the next tax year.

[EightChalk]

Could you explain it to your current manager in more detail - e.g. that you already go to bed past 11pm, and that it would mainly be on the weekend, and that you need the extra money? Lots of people's situations have changed since you last asked them. You don't need to say that you might otherwise have to look for another job, but I'm sure they would understand that there's a possibility that they might lose you if they say no.

[ImSweetEnoughDarlin]

This is an absolute pisstake. They don't own you and cannot dictate what you do outside of your contracted hours. They may like to think they can, but they can't. Get the reference from your previous manager and if your current work find out and have an issue with it, tell them they can pay you more.

[Charliesunnysky10]

@Cherryblossoms85 I guess I'm just scared to ask in case they say no. I'd be heartbroken because my lifeline is gone. This job is a real chance for me to turn around my fortunes and I'm so looking forward to taking back control of my finances. I know it's unlikely, but I can't afford to take the gamble on it. I'm also worried that my boss might ask what the hours are and find out it's not limited to weekends

@Lazyteens Now this does make me think I should come clean. HR might spot this a mile off.

[gertrudemortimer]

It's mental that a minimum wage job has anything in the contract about a second job. I've had two jobs since I was 16 I've always preferred having a change of people and scenery throughout the week. I think it'll be easier than you expect. At one point I had 3 jobs - a nightclub, hotel and hospital then I'd swap one and try something new, none of my managers ever looked on it as a negative, I found it actually made me crack on with my work and I was more energised, god knows how! Life was more exciting with more going on. It's also given me the chance to skip things on my CV because I always have an employer to use depending on what job I want.

Using your past boss might be your best bet? Double check with them and see if they sound okay about it. I'd be careful about saying it's just a Saturday as would new employer supply the basic info to current employer? Job title and hours/days? Also yes if they don't pay cash in hand then your tax code will change so you will need to let them know as they could be made aware quite easily. I find it ridiculous that you aren't free to do this and now have to resort to finding ways to deceive them but I would have to do the same as you.

[Charliesunnysky10]

@ImSweetEnoughDarlin But the reality is that I signed a contract which stated I'd ask permission and though I'm scared of them refusing, I'm also scared of losing my day job if they find out from my tax code I've breached the terms of my employment.