To worry about how right wing...

[TooBigForMyBoots]

...the UK is becoming? The scenes in Liverpool were shocking and I fear this is just the beginning.

You don't think it is offensive to call the Patriotic Alliance 'spirited youths'?

It's offensive to boxing clubs, for a start, to suggest that they are recruiting grounds for proscribed groups. It's even more offensive to suggest violent neo Nazis are no more than 'spirited youth'.

@ElliF I won't report your post as requested by @TooBigForMyBoots but can only advise that you get some help to work through whatever issues you have, as well as educating yourself, and only hope to fuck you're not spreading this dangerous fascist language to people in IRL who may be more impressionable than (most of) the folk on this thread.

@TooBigForMyBoots it's evil to threaten and shame a poster like @ElliF who I'm sure made an effort to express her opinions (which she is entitled to) in a balanced and non-offensive way

@2ManyPjs Ganging up on others is not on

It's been deleted. It was eye wateringly alarming in its racist and classist rhetoric, naive about grooming and radicalisation and condoning of vigilantism. I , for one, am relived it's gone. Sorry OP.

There isn't an entitlement to say what you want . That's why it was deleted horse. Please don't make yourself an apologist for deleted posts. The poster herself knew it was offensive so not sure what you think you are defending.

@thehorsehasnowbolted I've lost all patience for being polite to you. You may well call it ganging up (your entitled to your opinion), however I call it 'calling out invitations to right wing fascists to set up vigilante groups'. But you've demonstrated beyond any doubt throughout this thread that you're a bigot and quite frankly, a sandwich short. The fact you're supporting that woman's post should (although sadly won't) be enough to get you banned from MN.

You're imagining things again @thehorsehasnowbolted, I didn't threaten or shame anyone.

Why is it right wing? It is right wing to want to 'send back' those who are here legally but that's not this is about. I agree they should not be rioting, absolutely not, but such hostels are put in the most deprived areas of the country where people suffer most from the cost of liviing. And where people feel they have the least say in what happens to them and have the least ability to move away, move on, move up, move out.

What is wrong that we have an assylum system that prioritises singel men who bully their way here illegally not women, childrem the elderly and families who are left in camps for years. and our middle class elite think this is ok and do nothing but moan about those who have little taking matters into their own hands.

It worries mean how lacking in epathy the left/liberal elite are in this country. Both for those torn about by way and by those left to pick up the pieces in their communties.

Yes, as a country, people are expressing their right-wing tendencies more and more. It's particularly prevalent in the older generations and wrapped up as unconscious bias, or ignorance. I was in a country cafe at the weekend with DD and three times a table of 4 elderly women talking very loudly while laughing made reference to someone being a 'darky' 'half-caste' and 'foreign' while literally looking straight at DD who is mixed race. I told them in no uncertain terms what I thought of their language but it was like I was an alien and I know they and their people won't change and that they have already indoctrinated their spawn so this will go on for generations to come.

@ChristinaXYZ We have an asylum system that prioritises men because it is impossible to claim asylum outside the country for nearly everyone. There have been calls for decades for the UK to set up an asylum scheme in refugee camps abroad. The government always refuses to.
The only way to claim asylum except in a few special circumstances, is to travel to the UK and then claim asylum. That usually involves long and dangerous journeys with illegal traffic smugglers. Most families are not willing to risk their childrens lives by making this journey, and the mother stays with her children.
It is the UKs fault that most asylum seekers are men. Look at Ukraine where people could apply to come to the UK from Ukraine. Suddenly most asylum seekers where women with children.

I don’t know why it was deleted. Clearly OP asked for it to remain, but I don’t know if that was so that it’s stood as an example of truly despicable the post was, or because she thought is contributed something.

Clearly my words were inflammatory if MN have deleted it.

Just so you’s know, I was being hyperbolic. Not literal. I was explain why we are destroying our country, and why these things are happening. It’s not rocket science. Clearly to any reasonable reader phrases like ‘spirited youths from the boxing club’ is not meant to be taken literally. It isn’t meant to be bigoted or racist. It is hyperbole. A caricature offered in jest.

I grew up in this country in poverty, and as an adult I have lived in many deprived areas of the world, in some of the most wonderful and safe communities that many in this county look upon as barbaric and backward.

The usual like to the vague vague guidelines isn’t helpful. They are unspecific.

I would be eternally grateful if someone would take the time to be specific about where the lines are that I crossed, and PM me so as not to burden the thread. Sincerely, it would help me.

... but only because all the men were restricted from leaving the county, you understand.

@2ManyPjs I get where you’re coming from and if you can do it objectively I’d welcome you pulling apart my post in a PM. Until I read this thread I didn’t know that PA existed. I don’t follow the news. I haven’t gone and looked but I’m assuming they are somewhat like what the BNP are/were.

I have no social media account. I am too old, or just too uninterested, for that sort of thing. I live a quiet little life that may be a bit of a struggle in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere. No need for social media.

Our society is failing, and it’s people are frustrated and spend their time squabbling and trying to pull it apart. Maybe this is by design. Maybe the intent to build it up to a crescendo of division and poverty, and then throw us into a world war so we all get together with that war spirit like one bid happy family supporting one another. Who knows, but this is a symptom of everything we have been doing to our people for the past 20 years.

I know. But also because women and children could travel safely to Britain.
Afghanistan asylum seekers given safe passage included many families with children, even though many of the employees eligible were men. Men brought wives and children because it was safer to do so than remaining.

Yes. Afghanistan is a better comparison to illustrate your point. A point we’ll made.

That usually involves long and dangerous journeys with illegal traffic smugglers. Most families are not willing to risk their childrens lives by making this journey, and the mother stays with her children. It is the UKs fault that most asylum seekers are men.

Nice try and beautiful story. But most illegal 'asylum seekers' travel from France where they are already safe. They don't need to come to the UK illegally

They come to the UK usually because they have family here. A cousin, a father in law, etc. Much easier practically to settle if you know someone already here.

I wouldn’t risk my life and leave my family behind to meet up with a cousin…

They leave a dangerous country. They can not stay. They go to a country where they already have a family member who will help them. If I only had a cousin who lived in a safe country damn right I would go there.

@ElliF Well, part of me now thinks you're coming from a 'good' place (although I'm not wholly convinced, but certainly a better place than the bolting horse) so I'll give you benefit of the doubt. All I'll say is your post was inflammatory and littered with dangerous rhetoric. Incidentally, PA is exactly the sort of group that garnered support for Hitler in 1933 - with crippling inflation in the background - by exploiting tensions amongst ordinary people and othering minority groups, blaming them for mass poverty and all other ills of society. Ring a bell? You've been had, mate. You say you were only being "hyperbolic" - you must realise where "hyperbolic" hate speech leads? Think Trump...

Clearly OP asked for it to remain, but I don’t know if that was so that it’s stood as an example of truly despicable the post was, or because she thought is contributed something.

Well I can't speak for @TooBigForMyBoots but I assume from her other posts it was the former. I read your post several times because I couldn't believe what I was reading, and it just left me thinking if you'd been at Cable St in 1936 I know exactly what side you'd have been on.

I have no social media account. I am too old, or just too uninterested, for that sort of thing. I live a quiet little life that may be a bit of a struggle in a tiny village in the middle of nowhere. No need for social media.

Being old isn't an excuse for posting fascist shite on a public forum. In fact, I would argue you should know better (I mean, both my dad and DH's dad are in their late 80s and both would tear strips off you). No need for social media? Yet here you are on MN. Uninterested? But interested enough to have a very strong opinion on MN.

Best wishes for the rest of your day.

Smuggling is big business now. There was a good programme on R4 on Sunday.

They make millions and what used to take months takes days.

Interviews with boat suppliers etc

This is so easy to say when you have all the luxuries of a life in the western world. There are millions of people who work for less than £200 a month in factories in foreign counties, and living on bread and slurry, just so they can send money home to their wives and children who live in abject poverty in even worse countries in the world.

I have met people in Dubai who sleep on foam yoga mats at the foot of their machines, and who only manage to travel to see their wives and children for a month every two years. If you grow up poor in somewhere like Bangladesh, and you get the change of a job in Dubai, it’s like winning the lottery.

That a man will spend his life working 60 hours a week so that his wife and children may eat, whilst he may only see his children in person for a month six times before they are 12 is heartbreaking.

Some men will travel half way around the world, starve themselves silly, and risk their lives, for the chance to ask us for help.

We may not understand that. We may not wish to look to see the world outside of our green and pleasant land. But the very least we should so do as a decent if reluctant hose, is offer them courtesy, safety, and the chance to be heard.

Host

I didn't see the deleted post but it's all a bit disingenuous isn't it?

If I were @ElliF and I'd been deleted as often as she has in the past few days I'd be revisiting the Talk Guidelines to find out why.

At no one in particular...

I get deleted for pointing out the natural reaction of parents when faced with the provably very real risk of grooming and predatory behaviour of men.
I get deleted for pointing out that friction occurs because we starve our people, threaten their homes and their jobs, and freeze them in winter, and then pump their TVs and papers full of fear porn to make sure their cortisol lives are high. We tell Them who to hate and let them loose and pretend we’re shocked or disgusted at the carriage we create.

But what has shocked me most is the level of hatred and the complete lack of compassion, by many of what I assume, are otherwise relatively sane and intelligent parents.

If you cannot empathise with immigrants, and yet know nothing about them, and you cannot empathise with those living in deprivation, and yet know nothing about them, and you cannot empathise with the disaffected youth and yet no nothing about them, there is only one common denominator, and that is you.