To think that 'gender affirming care" is barbaric and should be banned?

[Appalonia]

This article is from the US but these procedures have been carried out in the UK. Teenagers who are confused and vulnerable do not have the mental capacity to consent to puberty blockers, cross sex hormones or life altering surgery.

Please read this devastating article from a whistleblower who has been working in a gender clinic in the US.

www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

I strongly disagree.

It's the parents business too if the person involved is underage.

So no 14 or 15 year old has ever been put in puberty blockers ?

No 14 or 15 year old has never been socially transitioned ?

Both "treatments" that seem to reinforce the need to fully transition rather than help them cope

Hardly surprising really - you can't change sex so any milder "treatment " will be unsatisfactory, but will reinforce the idea that meaningful change is possible

Please read through the typos / autocorrect madness there - double negative is not intended for example

I understand where you are coming from, this is such a bad situation that many people understandably experience disbelief and don’t want to admit that it is happening.

We trust our medical profession to provide appropriate care that will not cause unnecessary harm but in too many cases that trust is misplaced.

This is happening.

Thanks to the major efforts of the trans activists in suppressing research there is very little data and proper numbers available but we do know that it is too many and rising.

In the GMC hearing when Dr Webberley, owner of Gendergp was struck off, evidence was presented where they were prescribing puberty blockers and cross sexual hormones to children as young as 9. This was with minimal assessment, little monitoring and utterly inadequate record keeping. They have thousands of patients on their books - not all minors but they do target marketing at children and young people.

They have been found to prescribe cross sex hormones to minors (15) without the knowledge of their parents. They have deliberately structured the business to evade UK regulation and rules on prescribing and are now looking to expand their market by recruiting Susie Green from trans charity Mermaids (currently under investigation for major safeguarding failures).

As I said in my previous post, Gendergp are expanding a fund to pay for more children and young people to pay for puberty blockers and cross sex hormones.

There are many private clinics throughout the UK who are very busy with trans medication and surgery. Crowd funding is a common route and there seem to be a lot of middle class families and friends who are happy to donate.

Dysphoria is a mental illness.
Affirmation, drugs and surgery will not cure it.

It is often an unhealthy coping mechanism for childhood trauma or poor mental health.

The majority of teens will grow out of it when their body and brain matures. Affirming the impossible is not the healthy option and does not get to, or treat the causes of their mental distress.

The only difference between anorexia and 'gender' dysphoria is a multi billion dollar a year gravy train that encourages, celebrates and takes advantage of vulnerable people.

What EXACTLY is 'gender'?

There is no magic inner gender essence.
No one is born in the wrong body.
No one can change sex.

Allowing children to permanently damage their perfectly healthy body because of poor mental health or because they don't fit into the rigid sex role stereotypes, which are being imposed by gender ideology fanatics, is child abuse.

I have no idea why anyone is comparing this to abortion

Forced teaming.

Like adding the T and Q the the LGB and pretending they are the same.

Or men telling women that wanting single sex facilities is the same as apartheid.

Or pretending mentally vulnerable teenage girls who suddenly hate their body have anything in common with cross dressing grown men or AGP'S. Most of whom keep their fully functioning sex organs whilst encouraging teenagers to become sexless and sterile adults.

All because of a feelings based new religion.

If we were told that scientology must be taught in schools as fact, and any non believers must be shunned, punished and sacked, their would be uproar.
Yet pushing a homophobic, misogynistic, nonsense, subjective feelings based religion with ever changing rules and increasingly absurd demands is somehow accepted? Why?

Because it's about men's sex rights and money. The removal of female boundaries, protections and child safeguarding.

You can’t see the difference?! Really?

Let me help, having a baby is a far, far bigger deal than having an abortion, the choice is not, continue living life as you were, or have an abortion. Child birth also presents its own risks and potential life long changes, so abortion is the less radical option if anything.

Not only that, but an abortion doesn’t put you on a dangerous medical pathway that you could be on for the rest of your life. It does not take away your choice to have children in the future, it does not leave you without any sexual function, it doesn’t leave you with irreversible changes to your body.

Yep, also abortion counselling isn't supposed to affirm either way, is it? It's meant to be objective not push you to terminate or have a baby

If abortion clinics/counsellors did that, then it would be criticised equally.

Unexpected pregnancy isn't something you can do nothing about, you have to make a choice. But nobody has to transition. Whereas a baby will be born if you don't make up your mind.

@Meaningofthesea 13 year olds ANYWHERE shouldn't be making those decisions, I must have missed where I specified a country in my comment?

It's a social contagion at the moment. I see signs that the younger cohort might not be as interested which is hopeful. Imagine thinking that you have to sterilise your healthy body, take life long health damaging wrong sex hormones 🤔

The only people to benefit are the plastic surgeons and the drug companies.

These people are also making themselves incredibly niche in terms of future life partners. Just making their future lives more difficult in every way for no reason.

Gender dysphoria kids commit suicide when they don't feel accepted by people around them.

This is an analysis of the available evidence on suicide and self harm risk in gender questioning children.

www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

This link outlines who Transgender Trend are and what they aim to achieve. I'm seeing a group of concerned adults asking for a robust evidence base for gender affirming medical intervention. No hate here.

www.transgendertrend.com/transgender-trend-constitution/

Here are more links to resources and support for parents trying to navigate their way through supporting a gender distressed child. Again there is no hate, just desperately worried parents trying to do their best for their children.

4thwavenow.com/

www.bayswatersupport.org.uk/about_us/

I am posting this because this was a study that was much lauded at publication as proof that surgery improved mental health. There really is so much misinformation out there. Please note readers, the conclusion was retracted and corrected to say there was no proof of improvement.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31581798/

Reduction in Mental Health Treatment Utilization Among Transgender Individuals After Gender-Affirming Surgeries: A Total Population Study


Branstrom & Pachankis (Aug 2020)


And Pachankis is a professor from Yale, caught out drawing conclusions where the evidence was so weak they had to retract.

I don’t believe that there has been any study released to change this outcome.

i am very happy to see any new studies though.

And yet another story of a life devastated by this:
thefederalist.com/2023/02/10/detransitioners-are-being-abandoned-by-medical-professionals-who-devastated-their-bodies-and-minds/

Here are some interesting studies which looked at transgender patient’s health which also highlight detransition rates .

//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580378/

135 natal males (119 living in the female role, 12 in the male role, 4 did not report their current gender role) and 66 natal females (60 living in the male role, 5 in the female role, 1 did not report a current gender role)

So... 8.88% of males and 8.33% of the females (this does not include those who did not answer the question which if the answer was to detransition would make these figures higher). And in Figure 3. 22.2% of those who socially transitioned, detransitioned

This study does not even include the current cohort of young female transitioners.

And this paper is interesting too.

www.mdpi.com/2227-9032/10/1/121/htm

A few things stand out.


•   the number of patients with underlying mental health issues. And how they are being completely let down by affirming only treatment.
  



-The number of visits before receiving hormones was 2.7 appointments.


-67 patients average age 27.8 years -range was 12- 54
-42 females, 22 males, four NB (3 f / 1 m)
-Female mean age is 18 years, male 23 years.
-Out of the 67, only 9 (13%) had NO mental health diagnosis. 10 (15%) had diagnosed ASD, 4 with ADHD (6%), 3 (4%) with OCD, 1 with Bipolar, 7 (10%) with a Personality Disorder. 13 (19%) had documented childhood abuse, neglect or violence.


•   the rate of detransition amongst those who had received at least hormones was 9.8%. This is in line with the European study which showed a long term detransition rate of medicalised transitioners of males 8.8% and females 8.3%.

  

From this study


Nine patients had stopped hormone therapy; one related to practice policy because they had not attended any GIC follow-up (the patient has restarted since the audit). Thus, eight patients had stopped hormones voluntarily (20% stopping rate; six trans men, two trans women).

Those posters minimising the detransition rates are looking at biased reports from lobby groups that seem overly invested in also minimising detransition rates.

When discussing rates of regret, that is a whole other issue. Because the reality is only just being realised.

It took up to two decades for the number of women to have accumulated enough to have been acknowledged who suffered significant life limiting and shortening effects from lupron use. The effects are still not widely publicised. The long term impacts will not show for years, but the signs are already there in the detransitioner recounting their stories.

Sorry for the format fails there.

This is the first link

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580378/

Effects of Medical Interventions on Gender Dysphoria and Body Image: A Follow-Up Study

and this is the second link

www.mdpi.com/2227-9032/10/1/121/htm

Care of Transgender Patients: A General Practice Quality Improvement Approach

And the points I wanted to highlight for this paper were :

-the number of patients with underlying mental health issues. And how they are being completely let down by affirming only treatment.


-The number of visits before receiving hormones was 2.7 appointments.

-67 patients average age 27.8 years -range was 12- 54
-42 females, 22 males, four NB (3 f / 1 m)
-Female mean age is 18 years, male 23 years.
-Out of the 67, only 9 (13%) had NO mental health diagnosis. 10 (15%) had diagnosed ASD, 4 with ADHD (6%), 3 (4%) with OCD, 1 with Bipolar, 7 (10%) with a Personality Disorder. 13 (19%) had documented childhood abuse, neglect or violence.


-the rate of detransition amongst those who had received at least hormones was 9.8%.

This is in line with the European study which showed a long term detransition rate of medicalised transitioners of males 8.8% and females 8.3%.

My point being, when data is scrutinised in studies and reviews that are not specifically designed to discover detransition rates, the numbers before the massive increase in young female patients were already showing signs of being between 8- 10% .

The massive increase in detransitioners raising their hands and wanting to be counted and have their voices heard is an indication that the narrative of ‘there is so few’ is false and is being clung to to prop up groups pushing through affirming only treatment plans.

If the true figure can be considered 8-10% detransition after medicalised treatment, are any posters who are fully in support of affirming only treatments happy with a collateral rate of 10% of people who detransition?

Are people who use the suicide argument fully comfortable that 8-10% of patients have to live with the decision they made that will likely cause them significant health issues. Life shortening one’s.

I don’t believe one person on this thread would not support extensive mental health support and screening. It is the hormones and the surgeries that are the significant issues.

In saying that, even social transitioning a child or teen is not a neutral act and one Dr Hilary Cass warns should not be treated as not potentially causing harm.

And here we have a book from an investigative journalist employed by the BBC about the many issues with the Tavistock and GIDS.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/f38ca170-a236-11ed-9d5c-69bd3c5b98b3?shareToken=08c87b70474a5200b2d70b4b1cd67574

My daughter (now recovered) suffered from anorexia. We had to FORCE her to eat 6 x a day. She would regularly threaten suicide because of this. She took overdoses, she self harmed, she threatened to jump out the window, she ran away. We had to manhandle her into the car to appointments and she would scream at the public that we were child abusers. She would tell people that there was no difference between us forcing her to eat and her being raped.
All because we would not affirm her delusion that she didn’t need to eat.

Thankfully we are the other side of the worst of this, but imagine if we had just affirmed her anorexia? All because she threatened suicide?

This.

I am particularly angry at the targeting of autistic girls. Having been one and having a daughter who is one.

Both "treatments" that seem to reinforce the need to fully transition rather than help them cope

you have no idea what you are talking about.
and social transition isn’t a “treatment” it’s just allowing kids to dress and be called what they want. Or do you think anyone born with a vagina should be forced to wear pink dresses until the age of 18 ?

Being transgender is not comparable to being anorexic . Being trans doesn’t kill you or make you sick. Trans people can live happy, healthy and fulfilling lives .

Medical transition can and does cause serious harm to people's bodies. I think anorexia is very comparable. Emotionally and physically.

By “open exploratory therapy” , you mean conversion therapy to try persuade them to be normal because people like you don’t like it otherwise.

The suicide issue is not that these children and teens are not feeling that way, but are they more prone than others with mental health distress? Clinicians have said this is not the case. And as you rightly say, what other conditions are affirming only when to do so causes great harm to healthy bodies and creates life long medical patients?

So you think we should section anyone who wants to have gender-affirming medical interventions?

Cool.

Did you read the Cass report posted for you to read on another thread?

I am very happy to post the link again.

By “open exploratory therapy” , you mean conversion therapy to try persuade them to be normal because people like you don’t like it otherwise.

How is talking about their feelings of gender dysphoria, their history & being honest about transition conversion therapy?