To think that 'gender affirming care" is barbaric and should be banned?

[Appalonia]

This article is from the US but these procedures have been carried out in the UK. Teenagers who are confused and vulnerable do not have the mental capacity to consent to puberty blockers, cross sex hormones or life altering surgery.

Please read this devastating article from a whistleblower who has been working in a gender clinic in the US.

www.thefp.com/p/i-thought-i-was-saving-trans-kids

As I’m sure you are aware, many organisations such as Mermaids and other trans charities have been caught coaching/advising children to threaten suicide if they are not allowed to socially or medically transition.

There is no evidence to support the idea that children with gender dysphoria are any more likely to commit suicide than any other young person with mental health problems. In fact, the noteable suicides or sudden deaths have happened to the children taking cross sex hormones.

I hope that helps you to rest more easy - obviously your priority is the safety of your child and I hope they can get access to proper open minded therapeutic support to explore any wider issues they may have that are driving their identity difficulties.

There is no evidence to support the idea that children with gender dysphoria are any more likely to commit suicide than any other young person with mental health problems. In fact, the noteable suicides or sudden deaths have happened to the children taking cross sex hormones.

This is incorrect. Even a quick Google will tell you otherwise

And what is this obsession with Trans people in general? Let people make decisions themselves about their own bodies. It's no one else's business.

I think this comment takes on a different perspective entirely if you substitute 'people' with the specific group we're talking about here. Children.

There's a good reason why the law says you can't get a tattoo under the age of 18. What seems like a fundamental part of your identity at 16 (that massive crush on Harry Styles, your K-pop fandom, the name of your first boy/girlfriend) will likely turn out to be something you leave behind as you discover the world and yourself.

We don't do children any favours at all if we don't put boundaries around what, as adults, we know may be something they will see differently as they mature. No matter how passionately they insist they won't and they'll love Harry Styles FOREVER and you're a big old meanie dinosaur who doesn't understand. If we turn a blind eye to the potential harms of unlicensed drugs, hormones and surgery on growing bodies and immature minds with a shrug and 'it's up to them, it's not my business', we are all complicit in the damage done to generation.

I have no idea why anyone is comparing this to abortion.

Abortion practices are long standing, well researched and risk assessed. We haven't got a clue what long term implications 'gender reassignment' surgery brings with it.

Equally, abortion doesn't impact on life long fertility. As the article points out, how can any minor meaningfully consent to loss of fertility/impairment of sexual function for the rest of their lives? It's nothing short of criminal to let them do this.

@WinterTrees

As stated in my previous post, very few trans kids are actually accessing medical care in the uk. The waiting lists are years long.

Do you think these families should have support at all, such as counselling, until the young people are 18?

The Tavistock clinic has stated this, it is the best information we have - google is not a reliable source.

@RichardBarrister don't be so patronising. I don't have time right now to dig up evidence for a randomer on the Internet, but that doesn't mean the evidence isn't there.

100% agree.

Google is the wrong place. There are a few large surveys done in the USA that were done with people being offered a chance for reward to participate, ie. not a great start for methodology. There was no way of checking answers. And many of the people answering suffered from family issues that were not being addressed or probed.

The clinics themselves have stated that the suicide statistics are falsely represented.

And the clinicians who work there report, across the world, that suicide rates are not reduced by transitioning treatments alone. And that those patients who have not had extensive, and that means for years, mental health treatment to diagnose and treat underlying issues first have very poor outcomes. In fact, too many patients who transition, having believed this would ‘cure’ gender dysphoria found that they felt just as dysphoric and even worsen then had significant medical issues for life.

I cannot believe any person who had any depth of understanding about these treatments would say just ‘google it’ .

They are though. There might not be many doing it on the NHS but as I pointed out, there are many other avenues and growing amounts of funding to facilitate it. Unfortunately the funding is only for ‘affirmative care’ which consists of affirming the self diagnosis of the child and starting them on puberty blockers or cross sex hormones. It does not fund and proper exploratory therapy to uncover the root causes of the distress which frequently out to be issues such as bullying or sexual abuse and completely not requiring any transition as a solution. This is dangerous for children and young people.

I absolutely agree that there should be far better mental health provision for all distressed young people and people open exploratory therapy to help the individual understand their issues.

I hope that you will join the campaign to ask the government not to make this exploratory therapy illegal by calling it ‘gender identity’ Conversion Therapy.

Gender dysphoria kids commit suicide when they don't feel accepted by people around them. Banning gender affirming care is not a solution to people being trans.

Why is there so much hatred towards trans people? This is the problem.

Even if the suicide claims are true (they aren't) since when have we ever thought that the answer to feeling suicidal is pushing people into highly experimental surgery, the outcomes of which we barely understand?

That's just crackpot

OF COURSE. Absolutely. We need a massive investment in counselling for young people with all kinds of mental health issues. (Having trodden the woeful, distressing and ultimately useless CAMHS path with my teen I am very well aware of how inadequate this currently is.)

But, we need this support to be explorative, not merely affirmative. Trans rights activists, many politicians and charities such as Mermaids are trying to tag such care as 'conversion therapy' and ensure that it's banned.

No hatred on this thread that I can see. Just serious genuine concern about the wellbeing and safeguarding of children.

Gender dysphoria kids commit suicide when they don't feel accepted by people around them.

That's a big bold statement. Where's your extensive research to back that up?

Banning gender affirming care is not a solution to people being trans.

Gender affirming care is highly experimental and poorly understood. Don't you think children struggling with their gender deserve some basic risk assessment and understanding of long term consequences?

Why is there so much hatred towards trans people?

Honestly, I'm beginning to think it's the TRA side that hate gender questioning children. You're using them as unconsenting Guinea pigs

Framing concern for children, especially girls in a porn soaked society; those with comorbidities such as AN and autistic traits as hate for trans people is disingenuous at best and extremely manipulative at worst. The suicide stats have absolutely been debunked, and there are now studies showing that actually, rates are higher amongst those who have gone through 'treatment', because changing one's body to fit a mental issue is NOT the answer for many, many young people. All you have to do is look at issues with people like Jazz Jennings who was clearly transitioned by horrible, homophobic parents. A simple affirmation is just not good enough.

These children absolutely need to be treated, but with gentle care and understanding, not drugs and surgeries.

How am I being patronising? I have told you what the research carried out by the Tavistock.

As you pointed out, it is the UK’s only gender clinic for children. Their research in many aspects of this has been woeful for some reason but they were very clear that there was no excess risk of suicide in their patients compared with other children with mental health problems.

I thought that would be good news?

It is important to be aware that there are many activist doctors and research organisations, especially in the US who have a financial or ideological interest in perpetuating the lie about suicide stats. It is utterly abhorrent that they are using this as a lever to force worried parents to agree to giving drugs to their kids that will sterilise and ruin their health.

Btw the trans medication market has expanded from being worth $millions in the 90s to $billions now. There is a proliferation of gender clinics across the developed world and they make a lot of money.

The lie that trans people are more likely to suicide if not supported has been debunked time and time and time again. It simply is not true. In deed and in fact, trans people are more likely to suicide POST surgery. When reality hits that surgery solved nothing for them and didn't make them feel better.

Regardless, the 'I'll suicide if you don't confirm my mental illness' is suicide ideation and is considered emotional manipulation which no psychologist recommends you fall for. Interestingly, it's used mostly by male to female trans people, and it's typical Male Pattern manipulation. "If you dare leave me, I'll kill myself" is the same thing. It's simply a symptom of Male Pattern violence and coercion and should never be validated. Also you wouldn't say to an anorexic girl who is skin and bones with hip bones protruding through the skin "yes dear, you are fat" in case they commit suicide. So why is an emotionally manipulative male posing as a female any different?

My least favourite fellow Irish person - and there's some stiff competition. Sidhbh lures vulnerable youngsters with her chatty upbeat videos. Or Scythe as some call her.

Then there is Johanna Olsen Kennedy who has done more 'gender reassignments' than even Scythe. She moans about patients having psychological assessments before she can get to them.

'After all if I was putting someone on insulin I wouldn't have to send him for therapy first ' she said. I hope they are saving some of that lovely lolly for the lawsuits.

You are the one who is incorrect. You should educate yourself before gullibly believing all the lies and manipulations you've been told. www.transgendertrend.com/the-suicide-myth/

Anybody who is suicidal should be seeking unbiased mental health services immediately not making life-altering, changes to their body

“Gender dysphoria kids commit suicide when they don't feel accepted by people around them.”

There is absolutely no evidence that this is more prevalent than any other group of ‘kids’ with poor mental health. Please stop spreading fear and misinformation. The situation is much more complex than this sentence indicates.

”Banning gender affirming care is not a solution to people being trans.”

Who is ‘banning’ gender affirming care? Clinicians and governments are preventing experimental treatments from being given to children and teenagers who cannot understand the full implications of the treatment.

There are other treatment plans that are available that are not hormonal or surgical. In fact, the authors of the Dutch Protocol have publicly stated that even their treatment or extensive mental health care first is not suitable for the current cohort of teenaged female patients. And it is also clear that their treatment plan has been cherry picked even for male patients- and the extensive mental health treatment is either skipped in most part or wholly.

”Why is there so much hatred towards trans people?”

There are many people who regularly post on this topic have loved ones who are have declared trans identities. You are now resorting to ridiculous hyperbole to try to frame people who are widely read about this topic (and for personal reasons) as haters.

This is a very familiar tactic to emotionally manipulate people when there is no evidence that can be presented.

Most 13 year olds don't know any they want for lunch at school tomorrow so allowing them to make life altering decisions seems crazy to me!

Good job, then, that in the UK no 'life altering' decisions are being made by 13, or 14, or 15 year olds