Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

I’m not expecting her to be over her grief, I’ve never said that.

I am widowed - 18 months is nothing.

Has she been in touch with CRUSE? Cruse Bereavement Support: www.cruse.org.uk They were immensely helpful to me - it was during covid and I had a session with someone on the phone every week for as long as I felt I needed it.

There is also Way Up which is a forum for those who have been widowed: forum.way-up.co.uk It is thoughtful and supportive, and runs holidays, days out, zoom chats etc.

Maybe you could link her in to these. It is a huge problem when your life has revolved round one person and friendships have dwindled. Making new friends can be hard at any time, but when you are grieving it is doubly hard.

I keep myself very very busy with a lot of activities - I do not know what I would have done without these friendship groups.

I am sorry that your MIL is suffering and is finding it so hard to pick up the pieces of her life - it is hard; very very hard.

I have grabbed every opportunity for help, as I am desperate not to be dependent on my children, who have their own lives to lead.

We do want to support her when she’s grieving, that’s why we keep inviting her to stay.

However it clearly isn’t really helping her, as she’s miserable and rude the whole time. And it’s not exactly fun for us either (or the kids).

This is very hard, but despite her grief she can't repeatedly spend time with you and your family and be this rude. It's utterly ridiculous that she doesn't speak to you because she had to catch the train. I do think your DH needs to explain that to her for all your sakes. She has to take some responsibility for her behaviour.

My DM is in the same position as your MIL and trust me, she will never get over it. You won't understand the pain and anguish she's feeling, and that's ok - unless you've been in that position, you wouldn't. All I can say is patience, compassion and listening goes a long way. Even though she sounds like she's being difficult, I'm sure she appreciates the change of scenery, even if it doesn't change the reality that she's living in. And also it's blimming difficult for you and your DH, don't get me wrong, I'm in that position now. Support is what she needs.

That could be you one day, would you be ok with your child’s partner telling them to abandon you?
If so, go ahead.

I’m very sorry for your loss, but I think your post here summarises the key difference. She has not grabbed any opportunities for help, she leans on my DH and one or two friends only.

Yes we have suggested Cruse and various other support groups but she won’t go, she says she’s not ready/can’t face the journey/it won’t help/she’s fine without it.

She sounds a bit like my grandmother. She wouldn't speak to us for years as my parents wouldn't let her move in. Her behaviour is not acceptable grieving or not.

Would she consider moving nearer to you? Then you could see her more frequently but for shorter periods of time. If she was somewhere where the children could pop round independently that could be really good for her. Also, it will be easier for you to prod her into gradually rejoining society if you’re near enough to take her to things.

Maybe, and I say this kindly - it’s time to set some boundaries. I had to do this when my DF had depression- he refused to wash/any personal hygiene - at all.
I said Dad you are welcome to come to my house. But if you smell and have not attended to personal hygiene you are not welcome. He turned up stinking and so I refused to cook for him until he got clean. Which he did and was better for it.
So you offer the same to MIL - she is very welcome to visit but in our house we are polite to each other, and I would like you to help me with x and y. Or something like that.
It draws boundaries and honestly I think it’s helpful to the person concerned. If she refuses that her choice but then she can’t visit.
It sounds very hard

It is not up to your children to attempt to help you through bereavement when your spouse dies. I would have zero expectations of my DD in this regard. The OP's DH's DF has died, he has his own grief to deal with and it sounds like it's all about his DM. Doesn't suggest she's a particularly epic parent to be honest in my view.

I understand OP. I'm going to be blunt, my MIL ended up being selfish and forgetting her own children were grieving too. She never once asked my husband if he was okay, how he was doing. It upset him greatly. His relationship with her is now different, he used to idolise her but now sees faults where none would have been noticed before. However, her husband was her rock, and she was/is still grieving deeply and will be forever. I understand that but I also know how she hurt my husband who had lost his father.

I think you keep encouraging her to access support and being supportive but only so far as you have mental energy too. I think sometimes we feel as if we should help but actually we can't, as long as we keep being a friendly face and inviting family to join in every so often then we're doing the best we can. We're all facing our own battles and need to remember that.

I guess this summarises how I feel. I’m not expecting her to be over her grief but I also don’t think it’s fair to be rude to us.

The train issue seems to be quite polarising based on this thread, but to me it just seems so unreasonable that she would expect him to keep picking her up and dropping her off forever more. He works full time (as do I) and she is physically fit and healthy. She is only 64.

He used up several days of annual leave last year in order to drive her back and forth and it just couldn’t continue.

I was widowed in 2019 and do not think YABU.

This seems like it is not just about grief but about her personality. You mentioned that she had a tendency to be difficult and cut people off before she was widowed.

My late DMIL was a lovely person and when she was widowed she was shattered but continued to be lovely to her children and grandchildren and consider their own grief as well as hers. My own DM is basically not a nice person and whatever tribulations she has been through remains selfish and not very caring towards other family members.

Being widowed is not going to make your MIL into a better person. You're already trying to help her access links to grief support and she refuses. You can keep trying but in the end if she never becomes more pleasant to spend time with, she won't see much of you. My DM doesn't see much of us but she doesn't want to and she doesn't deserve to. DMIL saw lots of us but she was lovely to spend time with.

It's good that you and your DH are on the same page with this.

With regards to the driving thing does she drive herself? I find non drivers have no idea of the time/money/how tiring it is to drive round trips. I have non drivers in the family who also don't work and they literally get picked up and sit for hours looking out of the window have have no idea what's it's like to drive or how limited annual leave is. They also moan about the bus ticket prices but have no idea how much a 7 hr drive costs in petrol.

This sounds really tricky - you obviously want to be there for her, but also want to protect your husband (who is also grieving)

Would a way forward be meeting half way for a day trip? Some kind of activity where there is something else to focus on. Or, inviting her to stay but making plans for local days out and telling her in advance so she can prepare herself.

It might be that she doesn't want to come on the local days out, but in that case you can take your DH and kids out and everyone can have some space from one another.

It sounds like it's not likely she'd be up for either of these options - but might be worth a try.

It does sound like your husband needs to have an uncomfortable conversation about how traumatic the repeated conversations about his Dad's last days are...she sounds like she probably hasn't realised how harmful it is to both of them.

I think it sounds like you're all in a very tricky position x

However much sympathy one feels, everyone has a responsibility for themselves. If your MIL refuses to seek support, then she will remain this unhappy. You can’t fix it. She needs professional support.

I was ready to think you were cruel but in all honestly I have a relative who is still like this 15 years post bereavement, and there is only so much you can do. If they’re determined to wallow in it forever, they will.

My father died when my sister and I were 15 and 17, my Mother never got over it.

With the benefit of 37 years observation I can say she should have held herself together more initially to protect us and should also have sought counselling/medication.

Unfortunately she just wasn't a very likeable person before or after, I supported her both physically and financially.

I regularly drove a 10 hour round trip to ensure she could visit her grandchildren or wasn't alone at key times like Christmas, I paid for guided holidays to China, art classes and swimming lessons, whatever she expressed an interest in. She was actually very angry with my DF for dying because money and opportunities were curtailed.

My sister supported her mentally (I refused because of the constant suicide threats) and consequently she missed out on so much including a relationship and children. Shes in full time therapy now and so resentful.

Id say protect yourself by not giving too much.

It’s also perfectly reasonable (and desirable) for you to set boundaries. She cannot come to your house and behave this rudely.

Kindly explain to her that her behaviour is unacceptable and upsetting. In a matter of fact way say “If the train journey is not ok for you, then I’m really sorry but you’ll have to wait until….when we can come up to you.” Etc etc.

I think boundaries are definitely needed for her and her behaviour. She also needs to take responsibility for herself, l appreciate bereavement groups aren’t for everyone but she needs to do something as the current state of play isn’t working. Rather than shooting down every suggestion. I appreciate grief is hard and especially being widowed. But she can’t just behave how she wants and be rude in YOUR HOUSE.

@JustDrama good point about non-drivers. The majority of them don’t realise how draining and expensive driving can be, as they relax staring out the window being ferried around. After a full week of work and being a Dad, l can see why OP’s husband is tired and is not willing or able to do 8+ hours driving. I am assuming driving will take longer than the train so could easily be 10-12+ or more. Also she is only 64?! Lots of people of her age work full time and travel all the time

You’d have to be a really awful person to do this to someone struggling with bereavement

I would add that Mum is still grieving as much now after almost 40 years than she was initially.

I don't think yabu. Assuming she I in good physical health, why I getting a train such a problem? Does she have any idea how exhausting a six hour round trip in a day is? For someone who works full time with a young family?
Is sounds to me like she needs professional grief counselling to help her come to terms with FILS death