Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

You see if this thread was written from mill’s perspective, her son would have been rude to her.
This is how perspective works.

people with mental illness often aren’t particularly ‘nice’ to be around. I think you’re trying to rationalise and compare but it sounds like she’s depressed and it’s no longer a normal grief reaction. It’s difficult but as a family you do need to step up the support I think. Could your husband visit for a night every 3 or 4 weeks? Could he go for a week and accompany her to the GP/ support groups/ counselling? It’s probably really difficult for her to get over the barrier of going for the first time, especially if she can’t drive herself. I understand it’s not particularly nice for your husband but it sounds like she’s been a good mum previously and he has you to support him

I'm 64 this year and the idea of losing my husband is terrifying. And no I wouldn't be going to any sodding groups or counselling.

Can you really not see the difference between not liking an area and turning down an invitation to move closer to family? What is your relationship like with your own family OP? You're being determinedly obtuse on certain points.

You say she was like this before her Dh died. Maybe the issue isn't the loss of her DH, which has worsened her behaviour but long-term clinical depression. She may have alienated everyone around her through this. I think trying to get her help to sort out her general mental state is the priority here.

I feel desperately sorry for her. Making her get the train is just plain mean.

Unfortunately, there's very little you can do apart from trying to encourage her to get support. Sounds like she is still angry and resentful that she has found herself in this situation and is lashing out.
The train thing will have been a trigger, she was used to being ferried around by FIL and then your DH stepped in and replaced that loss for her. Now she has to take the train its just confirmed that life has changed and she now has to do stuff alone without the backup of her partner and she cant avoid facing her loss when situations like that occur. But she also cant rely on your DH to step in and replace that loss for her either, that's unrealistic.

From her perspective she probably finds that train journey extremely stressful and struggles to do it and is annoyed that your husband can’t pick her up when it’s only once every 2 months or whatever. She’s used to being driven round by the man of the family by the sounds of it.

I’m interested in all the perspectives on this thread and I understand lots of different angles but I just can’t get my head around this.

Why is not reasonable for her to get the train? She is 64 and physically fit, it takes two hours and one of us meets her at the station/drops her off on the way back (and as above DH actually met her part of the way this time). We helped her to book the tickets and talked through the journey with her, although it’s not particularly complicated. We both work full time and she is retired.

Millions of people in their sixties and much older get trains every single day.

As a one off DH probably will still drive her (e.g. at Christmas when she will have lots of luggage etc) but I just don’t see the issue most of the time.

Cancel it. You don’t need a drain like that around you. There HAS to be a line with projected grief. You can grieve every day of your life if you wish but you cannot bring other people down with you for an extended period of time. It’s selfish and I can assure you it’s not something I would put up with.

My mother in law has been depressed for months because her 91 year old mother died. I make sure I stay well away. Nothing and I mean NOTHING is ever enough for that woman and she’s only happy when she’s drowning people with her own misery.

I was your DH in this situation with my mum behaving like your MIL. Is your husband okay? He’s lost his dad.

And re the talking about final days etc, my mum did this too, I’ve got PTSD from it all. I don’t think you’re in the wrong for wanting to take a step back, your husband is grieving too.

Mean for whom? Her son who has to spend 6 hours driving knacker himself for someone who gives every impression of not appreciating it or a two hour train journey you can get up wander around no driving read a book watch TV on someone else's WiFi its hardly being forced to walk through hail sleet and snow ffs 🙄

My relationship with my own family is fine, whereas MIL has lost touch with all of her own surviving relatives and fallen out with FIL’s family.

I don’t think it’s particularly fair to judge either of us on this and not suggesting that you do. But you did ask.

The train thing isn’t ok. I’m presuming that if it’s a 6 hour round trip he’s also dropping her back so 12 hours in total and he’s missed work, that isn’t practical and he can’t continue to do that. Also I can imagine the grief is unbearable and would make someone act a bit irrationally and rude at times but this must be really confusing and upsetting for your dcs to be around.

The silent treatment is very rude, I agree. I can’t imagine being invited to stay with someone but then sulking.

I do perhaps think he should have gone to get her. I realise two hours by train sounds fine to a younger, working age person, but perhaps it’s daunting for her.

@Mischance can I ask more about Way Up? My partner has just lost his mum, and his dad isn't coping that well and thinks he has nothing left to live for. He's worried he will be on his own all the time as kids and grandkids are busy.

I've had a look on the website and it says it's aimed at those in their 50s and 60s, although not exclusively. Do you know if someone older would be welcome or if it's not the right group?

Getting the train isn’t a big deal to you because you’re young and healthy and don’t have a mental
illness. She’s already said she’s very anxious about doing it. She can’t just switch that on and off to suit. There’s a saying something like when people are at their most unloveable is when they need your love the most. It’s very true I think..

I read previous thread on this I think. OP, you don't sound like the worst person in the world. You sound like a really nice and caring person in fact. You care a lot about how your DP is feeling and you care about your MIL too. It also must be hard seeing the effect of your MIL's grief on your DP. Of course you want to minimise that.

I'm no expert on grief and so please ignore if this is just rubbish. But I have had a friend who experienced a very sudden bereavement. One of the things that surprised me was after the initial shock and grief period, they became very angry. Kind gestures from others were interpretted badly. They seemed angry with anyone trying to do or so anything to help. My friend eventually came out of this again, but I wonder if it can be a common and understandable reaction particularly with a sudden and unexpected situation like this. You resent seeing others getting on with life when your own has been totally derailed. You're stuck in grief and other people trying to "make it better" must seem almost offensive even? I can't pretend to understand as I've not gone through it but I'm wondering if your MIL is behaving badly to your DH partly because she is feeling angry at the world - not at him really. But as part of her grieving and taking it out on him. I only say this because it might help you then be able to take a step back and not feel like either of you have done anythign wrong or that you have to take it on or even take it quite so personally? Perhaps it doesn't matter that she was cross about the train. Perhaps it's still good for her to be getting the train and doing something different and keeping on practising normal life skills even if she feels angry about it? Perhaps your DH can see her anger with him as not being at him but at the world? Perhaps this could allow you to keep going with the visits without letting them bring you two down?

I don't see anything wrong with reminding her gently if she is sending DH to conventry that it's not fair on him and he's grieving too, and leave it at that.

You don't say how long the visits are for. I think you need to be there too as otherwise it just sounds hellish for your DH who sounds like a really lovely and caring son, but who is also grieving and doesn't deserve the silent treatment.

I'd try and come up with a plan where you do see her but for shorter times. Perhaps drop in on the way somewhere else. Or stay elsewhere. Or stay for just one or two nights and then stay elsewhere. Or have her for just a couple of nights. (Two hours is a short train journey so she wouldn't have to stay for ages). Then when she's there, just carry on doing normal things. If she stays all day watching TV, then that's ok, just carry on with your own life and ask her if she wants to join in and if not, that's ok too. At least she's traveled to you, as even if she didn't enjoy it it keeps her doing things and interacting with the world. I do think that's important or she could end up becoming totally isolated and losing confidence about simple tasks.

The key thing I think is not to feel so guilty and accept that you can't "solve" this and that her anger isn't actually your fault . It doesn't sound like you have anything to feel guilty about. If you and DH can communicate gently but clearly about the silent treatment bit then that might be good, even if it's difficult. If not, I'd try to not take all of this anger so personally. DH is grieving too, but he does have you and his kids and is very supported emotionally so perhaps use that support not to have to feel so upset that his mother is taking things out on him. SHe doesn't have that day to day emotional support and is obviously very depressed and lost right now. I'd try and find ways to keep her connected to doing things, even if very mundane like getting the train, even if she doesn't thank you for it, and not expecting her to be any kind of fun for a while. You can gently point her towards helpful groups/forums. Is there any kind of telephone service where someone can phone her or she can speak to someone? That might be a less traumatic way to start if she can't face traveling to and from groups. But if she won't do it, there's little you can do but give her the info and a bit of encouragement.

Hopefully, she will start to emerge from this in time. In the meantime, expecting her to do something (like the train) I think could actually be good to keep her doing mundane practical things so that when she feels strong enough to maybe seek out more help, she'll be able to do so. So I wouldn't feel guilty and I'd keep on finding ways to keep doors and connections open and maybe encourage very small steps.

I feel very sorry for all three of you. I’m a widow and what jumped out at me from your posts OP is the way she is reliving the last few days/hours of her husband. This is a trauma reaction and very understandable. In my view it is a separate grief from the awful sense of loss and the knowledge that the dead person will never return, that you will no longer be able to chat to them, go to the cinema with them, etc etc. It is really a shame that she won’t talk to a professional counsellor about this, because reliving the experience of the death is very much like having PTSD. It might be that your DH should seek some counselling himself even if his mum won’t, because it sounds as if he too is finding those last memories very hard to deal with.
I think you are right to draw some boundaries, she should be able to accept travelling on the train for two hours, and I agree with a previous poster that you’d be quite in order telling her that the silent treatment is not acceptable in your home. But try to say it kindly, acknowledging her pain, and maybe breaking her pain down into separate chunks as I’ve tried (probably clumsily) to do above.

FGS-the OPs husband is grieving as well-he has suddenly lost his father. Grief doesn’t make you not speak to someone for 24 hours because you’re sulking. The OP is doing her best to support him and her MIL. But it’s intensely frustrating if the person left behind has no interest at all in helping themselves to learn to live with it and is content to shit on the people supporting her who are grieving themselves.

This woman can count on one hand the people she has in her life. Speaks volumes.

I realise two hours by train sounds fine to a younger, working age person, but perhaps it’s daunting for her

She's 64 and physically fit, how on earth would it be daunting?

It's completely reasonable. We have three kids and a widowed MIL who doesn't drive. Every weekend my husband spends driving up and down, and then up and down again is one that leaves us both exhausted and unhappy, because he doesn't get to do anything but drive and I am home alone and completely frazzled before the hosting starts.

So my MIL gets the train at least one way and then a bus. She is in her eighties.

I was widowed almost a year ago and I am in no way ready to move out of my home either. Every day that passes feels like I am leaving DH further and further behind, I can't even bring myself to call him my 'late' DH because, to me, he's not. I am not ready for groups yet either. And I do want to rehash his last days over and over because I think I have some kind of trauma over how he died but I don't because I guess it's not socially acceptable. Life feels like constantly wading through treacle and I have no desire to wake up most days. The grief of losing a partner and the grief of losing a parent are equal but very, very different.

I am guessing that suddenly having to negotiate travel is a scary prospect for her. When my dad died my mum stopped being able to do the journeys on public transport that she had always managed before and, as a non driver she is now reliant on us picking her up. Once upon a time train stations were manned with staff who could help if you needed it but now they are often lonely places and can be confusing if you have trouble understanding all the information boards etc.

It depends on your personality how your perceived to cope with things my nan lost my grandad he was the only driver she was isolated without him lived out in the sticks (one bus a week) just her and her dog she seemed to cope really well as grandchildren we never saw her wallow in self pity or cry at all the closest she came was when the dog was put to sleep she told me it was just a dog and being silly would help no-one but her voice was a bit shaky it was her last link with her husband but again she picked up and carried on. as an adult I can only imagine the silence in that bungalow that must have descended every night the area she lived in was (and still is) so QUIET grandad always was the most outgoing person nan was the more reserved of the two but she put herself out there because she needed too

Your mil needs to gain help and support but if she won't you really cannot help her and your husband will be suffering too he has lost his father you only get one of those!