Don’t want to be around bereaved MIL anymore

[turquoisepenguin]

This is probably going to make me sound like the worst person in the world but here goes.

FIL died eighteen months ago, it was quite sudden and he was relatively young (65).

MIL is now very depressed. I do feel very sorry for her because FIL was basically her whole world. She doesn’t have any other family, doesn’t have many friends, doesn’t drive, and is retired. She used to spend most of her time with FIL. So it is really sad.

She recently came to stay. This was actually my suggestion as I know she is bored and lonely and I thought it would cheer her up. Unfortunately it was a disaster. She was in a terrible mood with DH because he asked her to get the train (he used to pick her up and drive to ours but it’s a six hour round trip). So she barely spoke to him or me for the first 24 hours. She didn’t want to go out anywhere so she sat and watched daytime TV for six hours (this is not an exaggeration). She cried a lot of the time and turned most conversations round to FIL.

She is clearly depressed but won’t go to the doctor or have counselling. She is in a terrible place but she won’t accept any help and is very rude to DH. She refused to say goodbye to him, again because she was unhappy about having to get the train. At the end we were both completely exhausted and fed up and the kids were a bit confused by the whole thing.

I had suggested to DH that we should invite her to stay again in March but I’ve just said I think we should abandon that idea because I don’t think I can face it again. However, I also feel like a terrible person because she is obviously very sad. I don’t know what the answer is really. But I have my own issues with work, family illness, kids etc and I just don’t think I can face this on top.

Its not about whether she can physically manage 2 hours on a train though is it really?
She's angry. angry that FIL died and he's not here to drive her, angry that her life isn't the way she thought it would go, angry that her son isn't stepping in to replace the hole left by Fils's death.
Grief has many stages and anger is one of them, problem is she is refusing to get any help and is stuck int hat stage and that makes her difficult for others to be around. Doesnt matter how much you love someone, you don't deserve to be their emotional punchbag long term.

I would advise you and particularly your husband to look after yourselves and set boundaries. My mother was just horrible after my father died. I suffered her until she was rude about my husband who had done so much for her, and then I just dropped to very low contact. The pandemic helped to make this possible but even before I warned my sister that it was her turn to pick up the batten of support. For me I realised that it was really affecting my relationship with my own family and that's what gave me permission. Family members grieve at different times and in different ways - and are actually really crap at supporting each other at times. It is so common and is just part of the general pattern of function/dysfunction that we all experience. I felt no support from my mother or sister with my own grief.

I'd add it's ludicrous to say a woman in her 60s can't get a train. On the basis she may have been a year or two younger than her husband, she'll be around my age. I'm doing a job which require a lot of mental and physical activity - I don't get my State Retirement Pension till 2025.

At the moment I'm training for a 10k run. My partner who is in his 70s is studying for a higher degree and does regular long journeys for the purposes of research.

Most people I know in their 60s and 70s are, if retired, involved with the U3A and volunteering, travelling, looking after grandchildren - and in some cases parents in their 90s. We don't need to be waited on hand and foot and we tend to be too busy to watch daytime TV.

Actually I asked about your relationship with your family to see if you spend time with them, live nearby, how your prioritise their emotional needs. I was just wondering if you treated them the same you treat MIL and whether your family had different expectations of support.
But you responded as though I'd asked whether you or MIL were more popular with more distant relatives - which seems to encapsulate how you approach your conversations about and relationship with your MIL.
You've had lots of good advice on here (and the usual sprinkling of posts from people who hate women, especially ones over 40). Hopefully even if you haven't found it helpful. Lurkers might. And they might put the time into reading about grief and circles of support.

Maybe because she is depressed and grieving? Maybe because she hasn’t taken alot of trains regularly? Maybe she was dependent on her husband for all the logistics of getting places?

Idk

My mother is 75 and takes trains happily - is offended to be offered a seat even - but not everyone is the same.

Can tell there are a lot of younger people on this thread....

@BungleandGeorge "Getting the train isn’t a big deal to you because you’re young and healthy and don’t have a mental illness. She’s already said she’s very anxious about doing it. She can’t just switch that on and off to suit."

But the positive here is she did get the train despite being anxious about it. That was a huge thing for her to do and perhaps she needs real praise and encouragement for having done that. She probably felt awful and her anxiety is therefore trying to emotional blackmail so she doesn't have to again, but that's not the best way of dealing with things you're anxious about. The only way out is to do these things a few times maybe in small steps if necessary, and gradually get less anxious about it.

Getting the train could be really really important in terms of her being able to do things and have a more enjoyable life going forward. The OP's DH went with her on the train part of the way, this is a very loving gesture and he is basically holding her hand whilst she does this very difficult thing for her.

I think rather than see the trip as a disaster, the OP needs to see it was a huge step forward. Her MIL achieved something that was very difficult for her. It was emotionally challenging but it will help in combatting her anxiety going forward. Giving up now because it was hard for them all maybe isn't the way to see it. Perhaps instead they really need to tell MiL how much they appreciate her coming by train, what a difference it made to them and encourage her to do this again. Expect the visit to be difficult, but it's only by doing these things and getting more used to them that anxiety can be combatted. If DH has to go by train with her half the way then this is the kind of step by step approach that could really help.

I think there is a big step forward that has happened here that needs acknowledging and that could make the OP feel a bit more positive, despite the fact it's so hard emotionally.

You’re expecting too much, too soon. Try to be a little more understanding.

@bloodywhitecat 💐

This is so eloquently worded. I’m so sorry for your loss. People being irritated or put out by being with a bereaved person sound so cold.

Has this been posted before?

It's a shame she won't try anti depressants. I lost my husband and found them helpful. I grieved for about 3 years. Not constantly. It came in waves. I found when I was with other people I was at my happiest. What is her reason for not giving anti ds a try?

Whether getting the train is daunting or not is nothing to do with age and instead to do with your general life experience. I live in a small town full of people of all ages who've barely ever left it. The nearest big city is an hour away but people talk as if it's the other side of the world. I doubt many on MN can relate to that.

Just to mention that anger is part of grieving. It's understandable as losing a husband early is very unfair!

Both CRUSE and WayUp do not require her to go out. She can contact them on the phone and online. Is she talking with you all on WhatsApp or online? I have a Whatsapp group with all my DDs and we are chatting most days - they send me photos of what they have been doing.

64 really is young for MIL to be turning her back on life. She could have another 30 years yet.

I can see this from two perspectives op.

Firstly MIL was widowed 16 years ago aged 70, when FIL died very suddenly. Ever since DH visited regularly, now at least monthly as she has Parkinsons and is elderly. She isn't the nicest woman in the world but nowhere near your MIL in the context of dependency. Until about three years ago, into her early 80s she visited 2/3 times a year by train. A 2.5 hour journey to King's Cross, then a tube and another train.

The last year or two she was able to travel before Covid she got a cab from King's Cross to DH's office. She lives 240 miles away door to door. A round trip is similar to your DH's about 7 to 8 hours. DH wouldn't do it, not least because it's 8 hours to collect and another 8 to return and about 1000 miles in all. We both work full-time and it would be exhausting. We are also both used to very long drives as we have a home in Southern France but those drives come with a bit of a break even if a short one. Despite being experienced long distanced drivers we wouldn't do it and I don't think realistically we could do it.

Secondly and what is saddest is that your MIL seems to have been entirely dependent on your late FIL. At 64 I find that extraordinary and wonder who disempowered whom. Did your MIL never get the train to town to see a gallery or exhibition or do some shopping whilst your FIL was working? Even MIL did that despite being more than 20 years older than your MIL. Thankfully she worked until she was 60 so was used to travelling to work and making decisions.

I'm a year younger than your MIL and feel she is being far too dependent too dependent and possibly has been for decades. I am devoted to DH and we have been together for 35 years. If anything happened to him I would be bereft. But I could also catch a plane, let alone a train, drive myself to see my children who I love deeply and at 64 will probably still be working. I would however be incandescent if one of the children suggested I needed to downsize because I couldn't manage the house or needed them to sort out odd jobs for me.

I think your DH needs to sit down with MIL and actually explain that a six hour round trip and in reverse is exhausting, eats into limited leave and amounts to x hundreds of miles. The entitlement around this is breathtaking.

I lost my mother 31 years ago...I still grieve. It is all fine and dandy to say " I can't imagine doing such and such" but if you have never lost a partner, who was your world, as it sounds like he was, then you have zero to say about it. Grief ebbs and flows and can hit all of a sudden. There are many stages to grief and she could be in the anger/blame one. It sounds to me like she needs her family, ie:you, to listen with compassion as she processes! It may well be repetitive and get old but if you put yourself in her shoes then I bet you would hope to have your family be there for you no matter what. Time will definitely be helpful and 18 months is NOTHING! If she is going over the last moments wondering what she could have done as well, it sounds like she is blaming herself for not recognising any signs that might have been there and wishing she had. That is a hard burden to carry. I think asking her to take the train isn't out of order. I think that sometimes, just having people about to "sit" with you is helpful. So I say, for now, put aside your thoughts on it and give her love and understanding, even if she is rude. Kill it with kindness and let her process, listen, give her access to resources like groups etc but it is up to her to decide if she wants to get involved. She might at a later date and then will have the information she needs at her fingertips.

I understand OP. I'm going to be blunt, my MIL ended up being selfish and forgetting her own children were grieving too

And it sounds like that's what's happening here. It's not ok that she expects to continually retraumatise one of the other bereaved people.

There’s a lot of mention here of various support groups and whilst I agree they can be helpful it makes me think of a time before there were support groups. There was hopefully family and friends and a network of people to listen, accept and be kind. Now it seems like op is saying ffs can you not find someone else to take your troubles out on? Good times only for us.

OP, I think you sound reasonable and sympathetic. I suffered a really traumatic bereavement (the kind where a policeman turns up at your door in the early hours and boom, life as you knew it is gone) and I went through a long period of grief and mourning. Three years before the grey began to lift, five years until I felt I was back functioning fully again. So I can empathise with your OP.

I can remember how difficult it was to get out and socialise again, even with supportive friends and colleagues. But even though it was a strain, even when I was very low, I managed not to be an arsehole. I wasn't much fun, but I could see that people's intentions were good and it would never have dawned on me that it was okay to be rude or demanding. And sometimes I'd even find myself having a laugh and forgetting things for a while and would go home feeling better.

If your MIL is unable to control her feelings even in the presence of her GC and unable to show you or her DS basic gratitude for what you can offer (she didn't have to take up the offer of the visit) then I'd suggest:

a) she's clinically depressed and needs help from a GP and probably a therapist
b) from what you've said she's a dependant, narcissistic sort of person and always has been, but FIL acted as a shield. If she can't drive she will have to get used to public transport. I'm 61. I drive and sometimes I use the train.
c) that she's one of those people who get stuck in the grieving process. Again, something that probably needs a counsellor or a group to help shift.
d) she is looking to your DH to take over his father's role and he needs to hold his boundaries. He has you and the DC to think of.

MIL's an adult and there's nothing you can do if she continues to say no to all the helpful suggestions you make. With luck time will help her get through this, and you may be talking years yet.

What I might do in your circumstances is say that she was clearly very unhappy staying with you and that it unsettled the children, so you'd like to put March's visit on hold. That might seem unkind, but it could be the prod she needs to start to think beyond herself.

I might propose a visit to her, perhaps over Easter. Could you bear to stay with her? If not, how about renting an Airbnb near her home and just call in for an hour or two? Perhaps your DH could help with gardening or DIY (I know, not much of a break for him but needs must) and you could all take her out and about locally and perhaps get her back into the swing of things? Good luck. You sound like a thoughtful DIL.

I feel so sorry for her.I also feel so sorry for your poor husband. He's grieving too. Were your kids close with her?

Agree there is no timeline for grief. My dad lost my Mum when she was just 55. They were together since teenagers.Even in the early stages, his main concern was my siblings and I, as well as his grandchildren. 9 years later, he's still grieving and has never recovered the 'jolliness' he was famed for. The thought of meeting someone else seems alien to him.

But he remains the kindest, most selfless person I've ever met and has never behaved in the way you describe. I would echo what PPs have said, in the kindest way she needs to look at her behaviour and get some help for all of your sakes.

I don’t think you’re doing anything wrong, OP. You HAVE both put yourselves out to be there for her, and she’s chosen to be rude and ungrateful in return. Grieving someone you love dearly isn’t a free pass to be an arse to everyone else (and yes, i have experienced it, before anyone starts).

I would hang fire on the March visit for now- see how you feel nearer the time. Maybe research some community activities near her that aren’t grief relates- church coffee morning? U3A? Volunteer opportunities etc? - and send them througj to her once in a while. Ultimately she is going to have to make some decisions about how she wants her life to look now.

Keep being there for you as you can be, but set the boundaries you need to and keep in mind that ultimately it IS her responsibility to choose how she wants to live and be now.

Read a few posts on, the experiences of a bereaved person. It's emotionally daunting. That's 'how on earth' she could find it difficult

Can you go and stay with her in Match? That way you can always leave…

@turquoisepenguin I think you need to accept Mil as she is, complicated grief and all.

You are literally going to have no idea about any of her feelings until you either lose a parent or spouse yourself. It’s not relatable until you’ve been through it. A sudden death is particularly traumatic and 18m is a very short amount of time. It sounds like she may be having a delayed grief response/complicated grief and you can expect her to be quite messed up until about 5years have passed.

She doesn’t want to be on the train on her own as it reminds her that her husband - who should be with her - is dead. She has to sit on that train alone, watching other elderly couples together no doubt and thinking we should have been doing this together. Added to this she is probably having difficulties with day to day function due to the level of grief.

If she comes down one or other of you should pick her up and keep things the same. Alternatively go to her. Or you could book a week together as a family to go somewhere - this will go one of two ways, either she will find the new place/activities distracting and it will lift her, or she will retreat to her room and cry. Probably a mix of both. In any event you will have your own space, kids will be oblivious to worst of gran’s behaviour as they’ll be out doing things (and away from the room crying). It’s worth a shot. I would still pick her up though, she isn’t ready to be independent single woman yet. She’s exhausted and needs tlc.