To consider not attending my sisters vow renewal or her new house? (Lgbt travel)

[Sandyshoes2]

Odd question really.

I'm part of a lesbian couple and have a toddler

My sister previously lived in Dubai for a few years, but moved home for a few years while my neice was undergoing health treatment. Health treatment is now done and they are moving to another country in that region

While she was there initially I was single, and visited her a few times, had some lovely holidays.

Her wedding was a fairly rush job prior to moving to dubai in order to be able live with her husband as a married couple there, so understandably now neice is better she would like the celebration that she didn't have before.

However she has chosen a fairly famous non lgbt friendly country to do it in. I completely understand that it's probably something that didn't cross her mind.

When she announced that was likely the plan, I said that I'd have to think about if we would attend and explained that I wasn't sure about going to that country. As part of that conversation it then became apparent that we weren't considering visiting when they move to the new country.

Her view is that I previously visited in dubai, and that both countries are much more worried about locals rather than applying the rules to "Westerners" which is probably true.

My view is things are different now because I'd be travelling as part of a queer family, there is a clear indication that I'm gay because I'm legally married to a woman, we are both on Dds birth certificate. Before it felt more like as long as I didnt engage in a homosexual act then nothing was likely to happen. I'm sort of not really a fan of spending thousands on travel to not sleep in the same bed as my wife. Im concerned that should an issue occur that my wife wouldn't be treated as my wife or the mother of DD. Dp also looks butch which worries me for her

I think she's probably right that they don't give a shit what happens in resorts, but part of me feels like I'm too old to be acting like we aren't a family, and that it's not worth the risk. I do know queer couples that have travelled throughout similar countries and been left alone as long as they don't hold hands

I'm sad to miss out on the renewal and recognise its a wedge between me and my sister

It just feels like a lose lose situations

Sorry you're in this situation. I can completely understand your position and think your sister is being a bit thoughtless.

I agree with you but I don’t think anyone is checking to see who you are sharing a bed with!

I think she's entitled to do vow renewals and live where ever she wants, but with that may come some constraints, like you being unable to attend this event due to the laws of the country. It's a shame, but all choices have consequences.

What’s the country or the specific laws of possible? I voted YANBU because YADNBU. I always think of that case of someone who for a long jail sentence for having a marijuana seed stuck at the bottom of his shoe. Or those dreadful cases of women being charged with sex out of marriage after being raped. You actually could be charged with a crime!

Is there a way you could show your love and support another way? Is there a friendly nearby country you could all meet (ideally you buy their tickets or similar) to have a private celebration? Or something along those lines?

I think she’s being not very nice, but if you value the relationship and want to show you love her, I’d have a try another way.

But it’s a lot more than that.

It’s worrying every single time they have to show ID.

Every time they step outside their hotel, the smallest accident - spraining an ankle or a bump in a cab (God forbid anything more serious requiring hospitalisation) - might require a fraught explanation.

And toddlers are unpredictable - all sorts of things could unexpectedly occur that would become more complicated or problematic than most people would want to deal with.

I can understand why you’d hesitate, @Sandyshoes2

I'm assuming Quatar and I wouldn't want to visit such a backward country regardless of my sexuality.

Standard advice to gay and lesbian couples travelling to countries where homosexuality is illegal is to book a twin room not a double, so yeah, it is a bit like someone checking who you're sharing a bed with.

Ah, very good point.

Having lived in that part of the world, I wouldn't be going as a family in your situation.
You might like to consider going over without your partner (wife? sorry, not sure), but that would be for the pair of you to discuss, and make a joint decision on.

I can't imagine choosing to have my wedding in a country where my sister would be a criminal simply because of who she is.
Don't go, it's just not worth the stress of worrying about it.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable travelling there in the circumstances you describe. Yes it’s very unlikely anything untoward would happen, but it could.

I'm also one of two mums and there's no way I would be going. It's not just having to book twin hotel rooms and make sure you don't accidentally reach for your wife's hand in public, it's the worry about it. What happens when they ask at immigration control whether your DC's father has agreed for them to leave the country? Or if DC has an accident or illness and needs to go to hospital, will only the birth mum be allowed in? What happens when your adorable tot says "this is my mummy and this is my mama!" (or whatever terms you use) to be met with at best a horrified look? Are you going to tell DC to call one of you aunty for the trip (under no circumstances would I do this but I've seen it suggested in similar circs for a family considering visiting Russia).

I wouldn’t go if I were you, and if your sister is annoyed then let her be. I understand it may not have crossed her mind but if it was my family I would consider things like this. I think it’s awful that she would expect you to attend.

YANBU, and I think your sister should be understanding of this - it just wouldn't be a comfortable environment for your family.

If she’s happy to support a regime that persecutes lesbians, that’s her choice. But she must accept the consequences.

YANBU and I would definitely not go if I was you. As you have pointed out, anything could happen through no fault of your own to bring you to the attention of the authorities and I would have absolutely no faith in them being reasonable and not making an issue of your marriage. It’s just too big a risk and your sister is being completely unfair asking you to put yourself and your family through that.

YANBU. There are much better ways to spend thousands on a holiday that don't involve being tense all the time.

My sister previously lived in Dubai for a few years, but moved home for a few years while my neice was undergoing health treatment. Health treatment is now done and they are moving to another country in that region

I hope she paid for her treatment when she was in the UK!

I would not want to travel to a country that didn't respect my sex, let alone my sexual preference.

I'm straight and I wouldn't go. I'd never support anything in countries which treat people that way.

I wouldn't risk it, especially with a little one. It's shit that LGBT people still have to deal with this archaic nonsense, but it's reality. The safety of your family unit is more important than your sister's vow renewal.

I absolutely wouldn't risk it. No matter how low you may think the risk is, the severity should it all go wrong is way too high. Going by yourself if you want to support your sister should be fine, but I categorically wouldn't do it as a family.

If you travel with your daughter alone they often advise bringing birth certificate and confirmation from other parent you can travel. That will clearly show two female parents. Even if you go together they may ask for this assuming only one is the parent and it will come out that way too. If they ask who their mummy is they will say both of you.

Its awful but who you are is against the law there, and these countries often have some of the worst punishments for breaking their laws. Do not risk your family.

I would not want to travel there in your position.
Apart from anything else, as a mother with a child and no husband, you also risk being arrested for adultery. There was a case of a flight attendant who had a pregnancy related hospital treatment, possibly a miscarriage? (can't remember) while on stop over in Dubai. She was jailed for being pregnant and unmarried.

So I would not want to be there, would not want to take my dd there and would not want to show my passport with my marriage status (ie gay marriage) in that place.

I actually think it is quite dangerous for you as a family.

Your sister is naive to think that it will not affect you. Obviously she can live where she likes, but she will need to accept that you can't visit her.

I have refrained from traveling to such countries myself, even when not married with a child! Who would want to be somewhere they are disliked and might be harassed by the authorities. And a feeling of shame doesn’t scream holiday vibes or celebration to me.

If it were me and it were a beloved family member, I would turn up alone strictly for the celebrations only, or, because I love her… make it up to her by booking a long weekend somewhere lovely where we could all go, if pockets allow.

This

YANBU to not want to travel to a country which openly discriminates against you.

Your sister sounds rather naive.