To consider not attending my sisters vow renewal or her new house? (Lgbt travel)

[Sandyshoes2]

Odd question really.

I'm part of a lesbian couple and have a toddler

My sister previously lived in Dubai for a few years, but moved home for a few years while my neice was undergoing health treatment. Health treatment is now done and they are moving to another country in that region

While she was there initially I was single, and visited her a few times, had some lovely holidays.

Her wedding was a fairly rush job prior to moving to dubai in order to be able live with her husband as a married couple there, so understandably now neice is better she would like the celebration that she didn't have before.

However she has chosen a fairly famous non lgbt friendly country to do it in. I completely understand that it's probably something that didn't cross her mind.

When she announced that was likely the plan, I said that I'd have to think about if we would attend and explained that I wasn't sure about going to that country. As part of that conversation it then became apparent that we weren't considering visiting when they move to the new country.

Her view is that I previously visited in dubai, and that both countries are much more worried about locals rather than applying the rules to "Westerners" which is probably true.

My view is things are different now because I'd be travelling as part of a queer family, there is a clear indication that I'm gay because I'm legally married to a woman, we are both on Dds birth certificate. Before it felt more like as long as I didnt engage in a homosexual act then nothing was likely to happen. I'm sort of not really a fan of spending thousands on travel to not sleep in the same bed as my wife. Im concerned that should an issue occur that my wife wouldn't be treated as my wife or the mother of DD. Dp also looks butch which worries me for her

I think she's probably right that they don't give a shit what happens in resorts, but part of me feels like I'm too old to be acting like we aren't a family, and that it's not worth the risk. I do know queer couples that have travelled throughout similar countries and been left alone as long as they don't hold hands

I'm sad to miss out on the renewal and recognise its a wedge between me and my sister

It just feels like a lose lose situations

personally I think that all of us whether heterosexual, gay, bi or whatever should all totally boycott homophobic countries.

heterosexual people going on holidays to or getting jobs in such places helps to prop up those regimes. it's tacit approval of their homophobia.

yanbu to not go, and your sister should honestly think about what message she is sending, choosing to live and work somewhere where some people can't live freely, potentially bringing children into the world in a country where they only get treated as fully human if they happen to be heterosexual.

Me too.

personally I think that all of us whether heterosexual, gay, bi or whatever should all totally boycott homophobic countries.

I fully agree. If I was offered a free all expenses paid trip to anywhere in the Middle East I would refuse to go.

I agree too and I am surprised so many people are quite happy to go there on holiday/for work

I’m also a woman married to a woman with a toddler @Sandyshoes2 and I don’t think I’d feel comfortable going, however much of a blind eye the country turns to tourists. I’d be uncomfortable, constantly worried about what would happen if we needed medical care or help from the authorities and wouldn’t want to have to try to get my kid to call one of us auntie or something and attempt to explain to him why he had to do this.

Your sister probably just hasn’t quite realised what her decision to live there means for you (because she doesn’t have to think about these things) and is now feeling a bit guilty and miffed.

My wife and I went on a few holidays to places that aren’t great for LGBT people but where you’re broadly safe in touristy or metropolitan areas (India, Turkey) and I had to travel to some seriously homophobic and dangerous places for work. We have more or less decided that now we have a kid though about two thirds of the world is off limits for us. At least until our kid is much much older and even then I still wouldn’t go to most of the Middle East, West Africa, Jamaica etc. under any circs.

Or Barbados, Kenya, Maldives?

Including OP on several previous occasions (which may be why some people voted that she was unreasonable)

I would not go anywhere where my family and I could not freely be ourselves, without risk of persecution. Simples.

I'm sorry that you are in this position.

'personally I think that all of us whether heterosexual, gay, bi or whatever should all totally boycott homophobic countries.
I fully agree. If I was offered a free all expenses paid trip to anywhere in the Middle East I would refuse to go.
Or Barbados, Kenya, Maldives?'

I was offered and all expenses trip to Jamaica - turned it down.
Asked to go to Dubai for work - all paid - for an event, again no.
Asked to go to Israel again for work event, but declined on moral grounds - because of the Palestinian issue.

It is possible to hold a moral even when offered luxury for free.

And as a gay woman I would NOT feel safe or welcome in Barbados, Kenya or Maldives. Even Croatia and Poland are off our travel list for the foreseeable.

I don't think straight people realise how we have to consider where and how we travel - I'm old enough to remember having to ring B&B's and smaller hotels before or after booking to check and say ' We're 2 women, will that be an issue?' and about 50% of the time told it would be.

It's not even about safety half the time, it can be really unpleasant to experience name calling, or aggression and hostility, from people when they realise that you're a couple, and a couple with kids too. No one wants that on holiday or in front of their kids

If your sister thinks her vow renewal is more important than you and your family's personal safety she can do one.

This.

OP, mind yourself, wife and kid. Your sis should have more sense.

I really wouldn't go. Out of principle. Your sister is BU to live somewhere like that

Doesn't sound like you're that close or that she really cares about you. Save your time and money and protect your family, it's not worth it.

I have a list of countries I simply won't travel to. It's countries that have corrupt law enforcement, backwards human rights laws, etc.

The thinking goes, even though it might be unlikely, the risk of being fitted up by a bent customs employee slipping something in my bags (happened to a UK tourist 10 yrs ago) simply isn't worth it.

A batshit crazy country like Qatar is right out, and I'm straight! Going as a gay couple would be madness I'm afraid.

It's a shame, but your sister will just have to understand. She has picked a location that is dangerous to you.

I'm a lesbian.
No way would I be going to any of those countries.

And an even greater risk when you are travelling as a married couple with a child.
There's no way I'd be paying thousands to travel there on holiday and have to a) not sleep with my wife and b) spend the entire time checking myself and looking over my shoulder for fear of being arrested for being gay

I think your thoughts are lovely and considerate and fair to your immediate family. I hope you’re able to have a calm, kind conversation with your sister and she agrees.

I agree - as a gay mum, I absolutely can't be going to those countries - but are you sure you know exactly how many that includes? It's not just Saudi and Qatar, it's a significant amount of the world.

I think your sister is being really unreasonable. If it was my family I wouldn't even consider expecting you to go and would ensure my arrangements meant you were able to be included fully.

Before Covid, I used to travel once or twice a year with my best friend. We've been friends for over 50 years. We finish each other sentences, and hug and pat each other.

Would we go to the middle east? No. We are both married with children, she's a granny to boot.

The place we've found the strangest to travel is the US or on a cruise ship with a mainly American clientele (Viking, cough, we are looking at you, your cabin crew were lovely but the Phillipino staff were very judgmental). They always assume that we are a couple and are quiet judgmental. It seems as if it's OK for mature American ladies to travel in a group but not a pair of Canadians.

My friend can appear a bit "butch" to some, haircut, square jaw, and lives in trousers, but hell, we stay away from judgmental people and nations.

We've had no problem in eastern Europe but then we aren't travelling with a child as a family. They seem to see us for what we are a pair of ladies of a certain age who have the time and a bit of travel money. We've shared the odd bed over the years when there hasn't been twins but the hotels have always asked if it's acceptable to us.

Send a nice card and gift and treat them to a nice meal before they leave.

You are right to be concerned. If I were you I would probably attend alone. I wouldn't feel comfortable taking my family into that situation, but also not want to detract from any joy or celebration of this event in my sister's life.

Your sisters choice to get married there is questionable, and worthy of a whole seperate post, but when it comes to weddings we have to suck it up and let them do it how they want it.

I think you need to spell out to your sister that even if you were to prioritize her wedding renewal (😴) (imo rights are much more important) opinions on the subject of LGBTQ rights to risk travelling , you are advised to book two hotel rooms and the cost is prohibitive. It’s simply not going to happen for you. SURELY she can see this?!?!

I think I would explain that I wouldn't go but would put on a little party or special dinner when she next visits uk