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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it’s stupid to have kids with the wrong person?

208 replies

Fannyproblemos · 21/10/2022 21:49

I have a couple of friends and family members who actively chose to have children with men who they knew would not make good long term partners. Each of them would admit to knowing this at the time. It’s not like the men or their relationships have changed dramatically. Now they are either trapped in unhappy situations for the sake of the kids. Or they have tricky custody arrangements, which bring stress and unhappiness. Whilst I sympathise. I cannot understand at all why these attractive and wonderful women chose these men to procreate with. Knowing they were already unhappy, knowing they would in most cases not make great dads, knowing their relationships wouldn’t last. Surely it would’ve been more sensible all round to leave these rot bags and try and meet someone they do love. Even at risk of not being able to have kids? I just think it’s a really selfish move to pop out a kid because you want one, knowing you’re intentionally bringing them into an unhappy situation. We should teach younger women this is not the way to go, it’s save a lot of heartache and divorce fees all round. And these are not cases of ‘sometime it just doesn’t work out’ they all knew in there heart of hearts it was not going to work out. Madness!

OP posts:
greenteafiend · 24/10/2022 10:10

When the time comes, you turn 39, desperate for kids and no decent man in sight, you really have no idea how you will act.

There is indeed a serious dilemma here. Like, men have (Generally) less agreeable personalities than women; personality disorders, addiction, criminality all seem to be commoner in men than women. Don't want to get into controversial stuff, but the "Living with ASD" threads suggest that a lot of men who are on the spectrum are VERY hard to live with as well, and there are a lot more men who are significantly affected by autism than women.

What if there is, in fact, only a limited number of men with the sort of personalities than make them easy-to-live-with husbands and fathers, and if the numbers of these are lower than the number of women who'd like to get married and have children? If that is the case, then it will actually, for many women, be a genuine choice of: have kids with crap guy, or have no kids at all (or get a sperm donor).

Is it better for women to remain childfree rather than having children with a less than ideal man? That's a genuine question, rather than a rhetorical one; I actually don't know the answer.

Or is wider adoption of sperm donation/single motherhood by choice, the way forward? I know that if I was late 30s with no decent partner in sight, I'd go for SD with a reputable donor rather than settle with some shocker of a guy....

FrippEnos · 24/10/2022 10:14

OP

I think that you are correct, I know that some women may not realise until its too late, but several of my friends knew the person that they were dating was not a good choice when they had the first child with them. But then went back to them after a break up to have a second one.

RampantIvy · 24/10/2022 12:22

Instead of being brainwashed into thinking that their happiness, self-esteem and status are all dependent on getting their man, young girls should be taught that staying single for the rest of their lives would be far better than being with the wrong man. And that they don't owe a romantic relationship to anyone - certainly not to man, and not to their family either.

Spot on @Fairislefandango
Also they shouldn't be brainwashed into thinking that having a baby is the only pinnacle of success in life. There is much, much more to life than having children.

Whiskeypowers · 24/10/2022 13:17

RampantIvy · 24/10/2022 12:22

Instead of being brainwashed into thinking that their happiness, self-esteem and status are all dependent on getting their man, young girls should be taught that staying single for the rest of their lives would be far better than being with the wrong man. And that they don't owe a romantic relationship to anyone - certainly not to man, and not to their family either.

Spot on @Fairislefandango
Also they shouldn't be brainwashed into thinking that having a baby is the only pinnacle of success in life. There is much, much more to life than having children.

Of course all of this is true
There are millions of women who have known that there is more too life than having children but when they wanted a child that was no longer the case. For many of these women no amount of education, career, lifestyle or opportunities necessarily overrode that.

it would help if alongside all this rightful raising the bar stuff for women and girls boys and men were raised in a society where women being treated like second class citizens, experiencing pervasive misogyny, treated as sexual
Objects and abused was deplored and condemned by everyone not just feminists.

then wanting a child wouldn’t be so “stupid”

Whiskeypowers · 24/10/2022 13:17

*more to not too

housesk · 24/10/2022 17:07

Not read the whole thread @Fannyproblemos but I think this is a really interesting point you’ve raised. I was that person. Why did I do it? A mixture of reasons and i can’t say one was the ‘main’ reason either.

I was mid thirties and with a man who ticked many boxes but not necessarily the dependable family man box. He said he wanted a family very much. I wanted to believe him and I think he did want that, but I knew that actually he was unlikely to be capable of the long haul. So… why did I carry on? Hope, I think. Genuine hope that he would change and rise to it all. He was decent in lots of ways and I thought that would come through with a baby too. I weighed up that I could be with someone else like this and be 38, 39 etc. There’s no guarantees.

What I will say is that those who are happy with someone in the long run, it’s largely luck - not entirely, but you have to accept that there IS an element of luck. Similarly, some people stay together after a one night stand, for instance, that’s luck. We can only make the choices we think are best in those moments and often, if there’s a time limit for women in their thirties, taking that risk is not a wildly irresponsible thing to do, in my opinion. I knew on some level it may not work out, but at the same time I knew I had put my heart into the relationship and it COULD work out. I hoped it would.

Another point that I think is relevant is that a lot of men who are ‘good on paper’ don’t actually want or feel a need to settle down until they are in their forties. It’s unusual for a women even at 30 to want to be with a man in their forties as they have all the thirties men to date. You do fine then that a 42 year old man will happily breeze through a relationship with a woman in her mid to late thirties with no acknowledgement of biology. It is a sad state of affairs that society does not value stable families in the way it perhaps should, and therefore whilst it is ultimately down to the woman if she goes ahead and rolls the dice with a man she isn’t sure is wholly committed, we have to ask why her choices are so limited, and inevitably, an analysis of male behaviour has to be considered.

Those saying women are not entitled to have kids… no they’re not. There’s also other things in life as posters have pointed out. But let’s not pretend there isn’t often a genuine, instinctive need to have children. There is no shame in weighing up what matters most and what risk you want to take with it.

For what it’s worth, my ex was clear he wanted a family. ‘Desperate to be a dad’ he said. He’s never met dc… that doesn’t answer your question as to why a women may make the wrong choice of father but I think it tells you that many relationships are nuanced abs on balance, whilst I wasn’t 100% sure my ex would step up, I never in a million years would have thought he would entirely abandon a baby he said he wanted. It really isn’t as simple as women picking a man knowing full well they won’t stick around - that happens of course, but it’s rare.

Duchess379 · 24/10/2022 19:01

I'm with you on this one, op. I couldn't imagine anything worse than being stuck in a relationship with a guy who's useless because of kids. But some women wholeheartedly believe they have the right to have babies, regardless of the situation they're in

MangyInseam · 24/10/2022 21:58

You are right of course, OP, but the fact is that even smart people sometimes make foolish decisions about relationships.

I think that when something is so close, it can be difficult to think clearly or do the logical thing even when you know what it is.

Some of the dumber things I've done were related to men.

user1471457751 · 24/10/2022 22:36

There's a woman on another thread at the moment complaining about the drug addict ex she knowingly chose to father her baby. Let's stop pretending that women are always victims who had no idea what an awful dad their partner will be. Some women choose to have children with shit men without any consideration for the poor child.

Cherryblossoms85 · 24/10/2022 22:42

My DH was perfect father material in every way. Caring, hard working, talented, patient. And he's turned into an absolute bin fire of a father because life hasn't dealt him the hand he expected.

RampantIvy · 24/10/2022 22:47

My DH was perfect father material in every way. Caring, hard working, talented, patient.

But this isn't the type of man the OP was talking about.

Some women choose to have children with shit men without any consideration for the poor child.

And I agree with this ^^

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 24/10/2022 22:51

Because too many women would rather have kids with a crap person than not have kids at all. If it’s a choice between “the risk I won’t get to have the kids I’ve always wanted” and “the risk that my kids will have adverse childhood experiences because they have a crappy father”, they’ll prioritise themselves and choose to risk the latter over the former.

I do judge it. I came from an abusive background and haven’t had kids because Ive not found a good co-parent. I’m now infertile so missed the window but I wasn’t prepared to risk perpetuating what I grew up with.

Seeing people willingly take the risk that their kids will have a shit time of it, because they’re entitled to have a child? I think it’s terrible, and I wish more people actually thought about the kids and not just their own urges.

AnneLovesGilbert · 24/10/2022 22:52

Cherryblossoms85 · 24/10/2022 22:42

My DH was perfect father material in every way. Caring, hard working, talented, patient. And he's turned into an absolute bin fire of a father because life hasn't dealt him the hand he expected.

That’s sad for you and your DC.

Knowing you wouldn’t have chosen the current crap version of him as the father of your future children you can surely see what OP is saying. If this is what happens to what should have been a good man, how much worse for children is it when their dad is a useless bastard before they’re even born and dragged into it? They don’t get better. Ever.

RampantIvy · 24/10/2022 23:06

Because too many women would rather have kids with a crap person than not have kids at all

So, basically they are just looking for a sperm donor. It's almost like having kids has become a commodity these days.
Good career tick
Own home tick
Nice car tick

What's missing? I want a child. I don't care about the consequences of choosing a shit father, I just want a baby, come what may.

How depressing.

FrippEnos · 24/10/2022 23:06

MangyInseam · 24/10/2022 21:58

You are right of course, OP, but the fact is that even smart people sometimes make foolish decisions about relationships.

I think that when something is so close, it can be difficult to think clearly or do the logical thing even when you know what it is.

Some of the dumber things I've done were related to men.

How many of those dumb things was a desire to be with the bad boy, the dangerous fella?

Going with the man that was exciting but treating women like shit?

I do wonder how many of the women on here that say men are bastards etc. overlooked the quiet unassuming boys and men who would have looked after them right and treated them well and are still looking down on them for not/never being in a relationship or being exciting enough?

I see it in schools and I see it through my friend's daughters.

This is not blaming the girls/women for the actions of the men, but wondering why many women don't reflect on the relationships that they have had.

MangyInseam · 24/10/2022 23:09

FrippEnos · 24/10/2022 23:06

How many of those dumb things was a desire to be with the bad boy, the dangerous fella?

Going with the man that was exciting but treating women like shit?

I do wonder how many of the women on here that say men are bastards etc. overlooked the quiet unassuming boys and men who would have looked after them right and treated them well and are still looking down on them for not/never being in a relationship or being exciting enough?

I see it in schools and I see it through my friend's daughters.

This is not blaming the girls/women for the actions of the men, but wondering why many women don't reflect on the relationships that they have had.

That is certainly a thing, though it was never really my issue. Just a matter of things I felt that I shouldn't do, that I did anyway.

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 24/10/2022 23:11

RampantIvy · 24/10/2022 23:06

Because too many women would rather have kids with a crap person than not have kids at all

So, basically they are just looking for a sperm donor. It's almost like having kids has become a commodity these days.
Good career tick
Own home tick
Nice car tick

What's missing? I want a child. I don't care about the consequences of choosing a shit father, I just want a baby, come what may.

How depressing.

Yup. You see it every time a woman posts a thread saying “I’ve got 3 kids but I just want another baby, there’s no room and we can’t afford it and all 3 existing kids have SEN, but I just want a baby so much” - tons of people will rock up and say she should do it, that nobody regrets having a child, that every child is a blessing, that it’ll work out etc etc. We’re very selfish in seeing having kids as our right (and then seeing them as society’s responsibility when it inevitably goes wrong).

QueSyrahSyrah · 24/10/2022 23:18

I agree with you OP and reiterate that it's not about people who think they're with the right person at the time, but those that KNOW they're not but plough ahead anyway, and those who come here to complain that's he morphed into a useless arsehole the day DC1 was born but now DC3 is on the way what should I do... Confused

It does not matter how much the Woman wants to have a child, to deliberately and calculatedly saddle that child with a bellend deadbeat of a Father for the rest of their life is a purely selfish act (believe me; I'm the Daughter of one although my Mum didn't know it at the time).

Nobody should be entitled to wilfully bring an innocent life into a raging bin-fire of a relationship / home situation just because they want to have a baby. Isn't that baby equally entitled to at least the outside chance of two stable loving parents, even if they're not together?

Women who use donors to go it alone, different story. I'd rather have just not had a Dad than grow up knowing that he decided after 3 months he didn't want anything to do with me.

FWIW, I waited until I met the right person. I'm 39 now and after 2 years TTC accepting that it may well be too late. I'd still rather that than have borne a child to some of the feckless wankers that came before him.

crackofdoom · 25/10/2022 12:08

One parent family does not necessarily = bad.
Two parent family does not necessarily = good.
I'm screwed up from my childhood in the perfect nuclear family. My parents are still married, my dad worked all his life to support the family. Didn't stop him being an utter cunt though. And my mum felt she couldn't leave because of this ^kind of pressure.

Arayes · 25/10/2022 12:13

MsPincher · 21/10/2022 22:36

No one actively chooses to give their children a “shit dad”. It’s mens fault if they aren’t good fathers- it’s up to us mum to be good mums. I’m a good mum and provide a good home and life for my girls. my ex isn’t perfect but he does ok. I’m not responsible for his behavior but of course I make sure it doesn’t affect my dds negatively.

lots of people are in toxic relationships but I suspect these crap dad’s and mums are not what op is talking about.

They do though. Women intentionally have children with men who were/are patently going to be shit dads. I've seen it with my own eyes, we all have.

It's their choice, not my business. But we can't pretend its not truth.

MarryMeTomHardy · 25/10/2022 12:36

mavismorpoth · 22/10/2022 09:50

Me too. It's a priority of mine but I think on the whole it's not. It wasn't for me. I went with a man who was just a pathetic waste of oxygen and looking back I wonder how/why I thought this person deserved even a second of my time let alone almost ten years.

Then I realised it's because no one ever said to me I was worth more. So this is something I prioritise with my daughter. If I had the self worth back then I have now I would not have entertained him.

I think rather than calling people like myself stupid, even though I was stupid, we should be asking how to prevent this, and really it is down to us as parents to prevent it. Also be hands on and make sure you have and keep a connection with your child, they respect you and you create a functional adult who will be a good partner.

I could have written your post, it took a lot of expensive therapy to understand, forgive myself and move forward.
I am determined to ensure my DD knows her worth!

Devoutspoken · 25/10/2022 12:36

And then there are women who are shit mothers

Arayes · 25/10/2022 12:38

Devoutspoken · 25/10/2022 12:36

And then there are women who are shit mothers

Obviously. But what has that got to do with this particular topic?

CJsGoldfish · 25/10/2022 23:51

And then there are women who are shit mothers
Yeah. There are those.
I'd also say that choosing a shit father because of a need to have a baby NO MATTER WHAT and no matter what damage it may cause the child actually fits into that category. Only one 'winning' there is the mother and she's not going to admit she's shit for doing it because, for some reason, it's her RIGHT to have a baby 🤷‍♀️

5128gap · 26/10/2022 08:49

CJsGoldfish · 25/10/2022 23:51

And then there are women who are shit mothers
Yeah. There are those.
I'd also say that choosing a shit father because of a need to have a baby NO MATTER WHAT and no matter what damage it may cause the child actually fits into that category. Only one 'winning' there is the mother and she's not going to admit she's shit for doing it because, for some reason, it's her RIGHT to have a baby 🤷‍♀️

You are dramatising. The majority of shit fathers, and I would imagine the type of men referred to in the OP, are not so shit they cause damage to their children. They cause their partners lives to be harder by not doing their share. They may be more likely to cheat or leave (but we've firmly established seemingly good men do this too) but in many cases the slack caused by their inadequacy is picked up by the mother and the children don't suffer detriment. The woman in these scenarios is hardly winning. She has simply decided she would rather do more than her share of parenting rather than not parent at all.