To think it’s stupid to have kids with the wrong person?

[Fannyproblemos]

I have a couple of friends and family members who actively chose to have children with men who they knew would not make good long term partners. Each of them would admit to knowing this at the time. It’s not like the men or their relationships have changed dramatically. Now they are either trapped in unhappy situations for the sake of the kids. Or they have tricky custody arrangements, which bring stress and unhappiness. Whilst I sympathise. I cannot understand at all why these attractive and wonderful women chose these men to procreate with. Knowing they were already unhappy, knowing they would in most cases not make great dads, knowing their relationships wouldn’t last. Surely it would’ve been more sensible all round to leave these rot bags and try and meet someone they do love. Even at risk of not being able to have kids? I just think it’s a really selfish move to pop out a kid because you want one, knowing you’re intentionally bringing them into an unhappy situation. We should teach younger women this is not the way to go, it’s save a lot of heartache and divorce fees all round. And these are not cases of ‘sometime it just doesn’t work out’ they all knew in there heart of hearts it was not going to work out. Madness!

So much naivety on this thread about men.
I wonder how many of the posters criticising other women are doing so at the end of a long life, happily married to Mr Perfect who has been by their side contributing 50/50, looking at their happy secure adult children congratulating themselves on their wise choices?
I'm willing to bet few if any.
And unfortunately until you reach that stage, it's really better to keep your judgement to yourself and your fingers crossed. Because odds are that somewhere over the next decade or two you may well have to eat your words.
Its also not a bad idea to work on any belief that you need a man to help you and that you're not capable of raising children by yourself. Attitudes like that make women very vulnerable to staying in situations that are bad for them and their children.
In fact just as women in bad relationships should consider carefully a decision to have children, its arguably even more important for those who feel dependent on a 'decent man' to do the job properly; as if you doubt your ability to raise your children without one, you are taking a significant risk.

@5128gap round of applause for this response xxx

Some can’t resist a good old, not so covert, women bashing thread even on half term 🤡

Nice way to blame women.

My choosing a bad man was all my own fault and nothing to do with being 15 and coking from an abusive family background.

Ffs.

I think it's stupid to jump on your high horse and look down on others online.

Correct, but if you mention on here that you think that people in a bad financial situation should wait to have kids you get called a nazi.
It's the same situation- people bringing children into a difficult life but it's arguably easier to escape a bad relationship than it is to escape poverty.

I think there are women whose economic prospects are so poor, that to have a child with someone, anyone, gives her - a source of unquestioning love, some maintenance, child benefit, the right to a home, a reason for getting up in the morning.

For those women, better education and support of a more general kind is needed. Because in some cases, they are right, life with that child is better then life without, regardless of how the man turns out.

my relationship had some potential but also because of my traumatic past, parents in an abusive relationship I don’t think I had a realistic outlook and chose a partner to fulfil certain unmet needs that were perhaps misguided.I don’t expect people to get it but I think this post is appalling in its judgemental narrative.
what I don’t understand why there are so many people who are so ignorant and so quick to judge others and feel have such high moral grand.
if you feel that your lifetime achievement was to choose a partner smartly then well done to you. Blaming women and single mothers is old news and someone suggesting than they pay for their choices with the taxes again needs to congratulate themselves.
lots of us work and support our kids and don’t get much maintenance and no benefits. Lots of us have gone through break ups to correct the choices we’ve made.

Isn't the real question. Why are there so many unsuitable inadequate men?

*coming

I know plenty of men who are willing to have children with "unsustainable" women.

It takes 2 to tango!

if you feel that your lifetime achievement was to choose a partner smartly then well done to you.

How about turning it round and saying if you feel that your lifetime achievement was to have a baby at no matter what cost then well done to you?

I feel that relationships as well as the physical mechanics needs to be covered in sex ed lessons in schools.

The quote in bold is arguably far more damaging.
Its extremely unhealthy to believe that the quality of parenting your children get from their father is down to the wisdom of your own choices.
Women who believe this, and have a lot of investment in their self view as wise and discerning, will be more likely to ignore and minimise emerging problems. As after all, if your partner turns into an alcoholic, an abuser or a cheat, thats your fault isn't it, for not spotting the red flags? Far better to turn a blind eye to cheating, cover for the alcoholic, tolerate all manner of abuses, rather than have people judge you for your bad choices.
Conversely if you feel your lifetime achievement was having and raising a child, so what? For many women it's absolutely true. They may have done an excellent job despite challenging circumstances, and are right to be proud.

Why are people talking about men who start off great then turn shit OR women who cant see that their partner is shit cos of their own issues/trauma, when the threads specifically about when women can see their partners are shit from day one but have a baby with then anyway?
Yes you could argue that women going 'yeah he's shit but i want a baby/think he'll change' is also sign of deeper issues but like... isnt that just yet another sign of how as a society we have failed our little girls that this is such a normal attitude to have. Its the mans fault he's shit - but women perpetuate this shit too! 'Oh you'll be fine, it will be the making of him' 'my friend Sandras husband was a shit but he's really devoted to the baby now' 'well men arent good with babies'
Im just not sure how to square off victim blaming vs saying no women have zero agency ever.

My mother married when she was 20, got me when she was 21. She had a terrible childhood with alcoholic and abusive father and a mother who gave all her love to her son and none to her daughter.

Her own marriage was not any better. My father was not an alcoholic, but he was a gambler and there was never a day of peace in our home. They screamed at each other all the time. She also lavished her son with love and affection, and her daughter (that's me) with awful physical punishments.

I was probably six when I started dreaming about leaving my home and I did that as soon as I found my first job when I was 18.

From the moment I left home the only topic of conversation I had with my mother was when are you going to find somebody and have kids.

I was a serial dater (is that even a word?) in my 20-es. I never went out with a guy more then 3-4 times. First little red flag and I was out. My mother hated that. Screamed at me that nobody will marry me and who do I think I am.
By that time I was at peace with myself that I will never have a children and a family. I was never that pretty girl every guy wanted to impress so it was pretty easy to find out who really liked me and who didn't.

My brother married very young to a first girl that told him she loved him and that marriage turned out to be very unhappy with two very unhappy children.

After I turned 30, my mother screamed even more. She couldn't understand that I have zero intention to settle. I was so traumatized by our family that I had zero wish to repeat that.

Finally I did marry. And he is pretty great husband and father. My mother doesn't like him and can't stop repeating that he is actually a horrible human being and I just do not know that (although she got kinder in the last year or two).

For her, me marrying anybody, even if he was abusive prick, was the most important thing in the world. I was happy to stay alone all my life.

I think children are the most important. It is our duty to give them happy childhood. They're not right and before you have them you should ask yourself will you be able to that.

I didn't even know what a red flag was at 15. He was better than at home. By quite some margin.

The issue is there aren’t enough high quality men so women with lower self esteem settle for low grade men so they don’t miss out entirely on having a family.

Its extremely unhealthy to believe that the quality of parenting your children get from their father is down to the wisdom of your own choices.
Women who believe this, and have a lot of investment in their self view as wise and discerning, will be more likely to ignore and minimise emerging problems. As after all, if your partner turns into an alcoholic, an abuser or a cheat, thats your fault isn't it, for not spotting the red flags? Far better to turn a blind eye to cheating, cover for the alcoholic, tolerate all manner of abuses, rather than have people judge you for your bad choices.

what a load of nonsense. I wouldn’t blame myself or minimise emerging problems if my DH turned into an arsehole. I just feel lucky that he hasn’t, we’ve been married 32 years and he is 71 so unlikely to do so now. Unless he gets dementia which is a possibility, but that would not be his fault.

I feel like this about DH. He and his ex weren't even living together when she got pregnant. To see them together now, they were so obviously unsuited I do sometimes wonder what the fuck were you thinking? It was only ever going to end up one way.

I think there's too much pressure and emphasis on getting coupled up early & moving in together after 5 mins. People need time apart as well as together to critically analyse whether the relationship is right for them. They're just swept into this Love island quest of finding the one and suffering from the fear of being alone.

People change all the time so the partner who is right for you at 18 might not be right for you 10 yrs later. If you've had a baby at 18 - 21 with someone then you might have outgrown them by the time you reach 30. We need to teach our kids to explore life and keep their options open. 0lus not be tied down with a baby at 18 when they've only just left childhood themselves.

Yes, it's very stupid. However, I did it myself. I was well in to my 30s, very low self-esteem, felt very powerless, aware of the biology time constraints, and such a people pleaser. I knew I would have felt shame if I didn't manage to have a child. My mother would have been so disappointed in me. Rightly or wrongly that's how I felt at the time.

I only have one sibling, no sign of a relationship there. I felt so much pressure on me to provide grandchildren. I had also felt pressure to get a degree and a career and I had FAILED to do that. I did have a job, but I couldn't handle the shame of failing to meet expectations again.

I did want to have a child myself too though. I think I boiled it down to this question. Which issue can I definitely not fix LATER. I knew I could get a job later, work on friendships later, heal late (only realised I needed to heal much later actually) but I was right in that the one thing you cannot fix later is having missed the slot for motherhood.

There needs to be more support for women. There is no acknowledgement that it's difficult to find a man who wants the same thing, difficult to pay for childcare, difficult to make it all work practically, logistically, financially.

Women are just expected to make it all work or accept that they couldn't make it work. Lot of judgement heaped on women if they choose motherhood when they're not 100% financially shored up with a mr Darcy.

Whilst I sympathise. I cannot understand at all why these attractive and wonderful women chose these men to procreate with.

Surely it would’ve been more sensible all round to leave these rot bags and try and meet someone they do love. Even at risk of not being able to have kids?

I guess some women don’t want to risk not having kids. Or they feel trapped. Or they think (because of the occasional nuggets of non-misery), “he’s not all bad. And he tells me it’s my fault he’s horrible anyway.”

I knew I would have felt shame if I didn't manage to have a child.

why? What’s shameful about not having a child?

A really thoughtful and self aware post.
I’m so pleased life is good for you now.