To think it’s stupid to have kids with the wrong person?

[Fannyproblemos]

I have a couple of friends and family members who actively chose to have children with men who they knew would not make good long term partners. Each of them would admit to knowing this at the time. It’s not like the men or their relationships have changed dramatically. Now they are either trapped in unhappy situations for the sake of the kids. Or they have tricky custody arrangements, which bring stress and unhappiness. Whilst I sympathise. I cannot understand at all why these attractive and wonderful women chose these men to procreate with. Knowing they were already unhappy, knowing they would in most cases not make great dads, knowing their relationships wouldn’t last. Surely it would’ve been more sensible all round to leave these rot bags and try and meet someone they do love. Even at risk of not being able to have kids? I just think it’s a really selfish move to pop out a kid because you want one, knowing you’re intentionally bringing them into an unhappy situation. We should teach younger women this is not the way to go, it’s save a lot of heartache and divorce fees all round. And these are not cases of ‘sometime it just doesn’t work out’ they all knew in there heart of hearts it was not going to work out. Madness!

You’ve selected one (inflammatory in isolation) line of that poster’s post. If you’d read the subsequent words, it would have been clear. Weird parental pressure.

I’m interested in that question generally. I was in the position of not being able to give my mother grandchildren but I didn’t feel shame about it. As it happened my sibling met someone out of the blue quite late in life and had a child.

Exactly @KILM
maybe I should’ve added context. I was talking about professional, successful, degree educated, well brought up, mid thirties women, all with their finances together, nice homes etc. They were never hoodwinked, but knew they were choosing to procreate with someone they didn’t even really want to have sex with at the time.

I just wish women would be taught to have the confidence to tell their biological clock to F off and not succumb to the pressure to have kids with any old sod. Because the reality of divorce and separation looks worse than I could’ve imagined.

I just wish women would be taught to have the confidence to tell their biological clock to F off and not succumb to the pressure to have kids with any old sod.

And taught that not having kids doesn’t have to be the end of the effing world.

why do some women make the choice to go out with the worst of them, move in with them, and have children with them.

Because it was significantly better than home.

True, nobody ever told me that I would find myself as I got older, enjoy being free, find other ways to be fulfilled.

The only messages I was getting were that id have failed again, to live other people's expectations

I just can’t relate to the OP’s views at all. Relationships are so complex. From my perspective, devoting oneself to a man with lots of issues can be a very maternal quest and it is often the women who are most desperate for a child that take on this kind of challenge. There also may be a lot of ‘love’ still present, even if the relationship is toxic. Low self esteem plays a massive part as others have pointed out. Many women in bad relationships bury their heads in the sand, try to see the positives, soldier on. This might be their reality of a stable home. It just isn’t black and white - there will be elements of good and bad in most situations except the extreme ones. Boundaries and standards also shift and change as part of a coping mechanism. And when the bar is set low in the first place, it isn’t necessarily clear to the people involved what’s a healthy environment and what isn’t. Even if it seems crystal clear to an outsider.

@MissMaple82

I believe children should be taught a whole lot more in schools other than subjects like maths and English, life skills should be taught, confidence building, body image, boundaries, and acceptable relationships, only then will women stop finding themselves in dead-end abusive, love lacking relationships where children are being brought up in, to no doubt repeat the cycle all over again!

They do - it's PSHE. Lots about for example friendship issues and resolving conflict, online safety. Yet students still write nasty things online, exclude people etc...

School can only do so much - essentially it's up to the individual to make their own choice in life.

I don't think the OP is criticising those who split with a partner and end up single. It's more the fact that women knowingly have children with someone who isn't ever going to be a good parent.

A lot of children in single parent households are on pupil premium. So it does cost the taxpayers money. I am personally happy to support children in this situation as it's not their fault. Unfortunately those children are highlighted in school as being pupil premium, graphs on their progress, discussed at meetings. We no longer have photos up on staff room wall but it's on provision map, class charts. Ofsted use as a criteria under disadvantaged. Obviously the aim is to level up and decrease the gap. But to have a child knowing that they will be always at a disadvantage from the start isn't great. I stopped at 2 because I didn't have the money for more.

I think there are also women who ignore the fact that their partner isn't keen & assume he will step up once the child arrives. Then he never does & they post on Mumsnet moaning about their useless DH.

I never thought I could change my x!! @KILM
I felt that emotionally healthy men were too intrusive, their questions left me feeling invaded or stripped bare. They were only trying to get to know me.

My x had no curiosity about who I was. I hadn't been encouraged to have a self. My x didn't expect me to have one.

It felt like a relief. I had no intention of changing him!!

Then i gained insight,

I feel a lot of people misunderstand how intrusive emotionally healthy men can seem.

Well considering your update saying you’ve thought about it a bit more and feel more compassionate towards them now, I’m not gonna go off on you, OP.

However, I will admit, what I don’t understand MORE is women who are not single mothers, sitting around and saying to themselves “You know who needs some more judgement? Single mothers!” - Hmm yeah we’ve had it too easy!

Look, I came by single motherhood in the most honest way I could. I didn’t expect to be one, and I’m not sorry that I am. Shit happens. I don’t get the point of shaming women after the fact, however they ended up in this boat.

But trust me, nobody is a single mum just because they didn’t have anyone condescending to them. And given a magic choice between meeting my perfect soulmate Nigel who would treat me so good and having the son that I have, I’m afraid Prince Nigel is going in the woodchipper.

@emptythelitterbox

Isn't the real question. Why are there so many unsuitable inadequate men?

Agree with this. I read about so many useless men on here. I think some women just figure that they want children & will have to make do with the men available. Men who take on 50% of childcare are rare.

There's also the conundrum of failed contraception

On MN it's always the excuse for making bad choices.

I agree this question is very relevant.
A lot of men don't want what most women want within the same time frames anyway.

I know this sentence will still offend people but there is a mismatch between what men want and what women want.

There is an element of good luck finding it.
But those women think that walking away from frogs automatically makes the prince's appear. I've been single for about 15 years! Not unhappy about it but I insist that finding a good man who wants what you want at the same time is good luck. Especially if there's no cost to that. Like you are beautiful and he has a face only his mum coukd love, or if he's a good decade older.

You are talking about me. And I find you incredibly judgemental. There are many, many reasons why women make the decisions they do. I won't go into my reasons because they are outing, but I do not like your holier-than-thou attitude. No-one, absolutely no-one, can predict how they will change in the future.

Worthyornot, excuse, or truth? Deciding not to have an abortion after failed contraception doesn't make you a feckless twat surely?

It's very common.

Let me ask all parents this.

Did you make it clear to your child throughout their life how important choosing the right partner was? As important as a career. How to do it, and instil self worth that prohibits them from selling themselves short in this regard?

Why are people talking about men who start off great then turn shit OR women who cant see that their partner is shit cos of their own issues/trauma, when the threads specifically about when women can see their partners are shit from day one but have a baby with then anyway?

I don't think the OP is criticising those who split with a partner and end up single. It's more the fact that women knowingly have children with someone who isn't ever going to be a good parent.

That is exactly how I read the OP, yet too many posters seem to not want to or are projecting.

I think there are also women who ignore the fact that their partner isn't keen & assume he will step up once the child arrives. Then he never does & they post on Mumsnet moaning about their useless DH.

Maybe they think a baby might be the “sticking plaster” to their relationship?

I just wish women would be taught to have the confidence to tell their biological clock to F off and not succumb to the pressure to have kids with any old sod.

And taught that not having kids doesn’t have to be the end of the effing world.

Exactly @KimberleyClark

I did. Based on my experience and my experience of life in my home of origin led to me parenting differently too.

maybe I should’ve added context. I was talking about professional, successful, degree educated, well brought up, mid thirties women, all with their finances together, nice homes etc. They were never hoodwinked, but knew they were choosing to procreate with someone they didn’t even really want to have sex with at the time.
Here's news OP - middle class women can come from dysfunctional family backgrounds too. Money doesn't stop them from being emotionally screwed by it, & getting a good job doesn't protect them from responding to similarly dysfunctional men as partners. ACE are one of the most common reasons that women end up with abusive or neglectful partners.

I’m so sorry for you guys that have suffered traumatic pasts, have no positive examples of how a family can be, have suffered abuse, or have low self esteem. Raising these valid points has genuinely made me think and made me more understanding and compassionate to my friends choices.
And yet here you still are, equating "nice homes" with "nice lives & ability to make the same choices as me" which shows that you don't have the first clue about how dysfunction is hidden or presented as normality under cover of money & privilege. Or do you genuinely believe it's only the Lower Orders who have fucked up families?

mft.nhs.uk/rmch/services/camhs/young-people/adverse-childhood-experiences-aces-and-attachment/

Me too. It's a priority of mine but I think on the whole it's not. It wasn't for me. I went with a man who was just a pathetic waste of oxygen and looking back I wonder how/why I thought this person deserved even a second of my time let alone almost ten years.

Then I realised it's because no one ever said to me I was worth more. So this is something I prioritise with my daughter. If I had the self worth back then I have now I would not have entertained him.

I think rather than calling people like myself stupid, even though I was stupid, we should be asking how to prevent this, and really it is down to us as parents to prevent it. Also be hands on and make sure you have and keep a connection with your child, they respect you and you create a functional adult who will be a good partner.

@MsPincher so true.
My two married parents are the reason I had no sense of my self. They are the reason I had such a low bar. The dysfunctional relationship between a defensive adult and a spouse that backs them up no matter what is far far more damaging than one single parent with no other adult and no dysfunctional dynamic projected on to child.

Well said @Parmesam

And yet my parents definitely identify with being "loving".

It's delusion.