To think it’s stupid to have kids with the wrong person?

[Fannyproblemos]

I have a couple of friends and family members who actively chose to have children with men who they knew would not make good long term partners. Each of them would admit to knowing this at the time. It’s not like the men or their relationships have changed dramatically. Now they are either trapped in unhappy situations for the sake of the kids. Or they have tricky custody arrangements, which bring stress and unhappiness. Whilst I sympathise. I cannot understand at all why these attractive and wonderful women chose these men to procreate with. Knowing they were already unhappy, knowing they would in most cases not make great dads, knowing their relationships wouldn’t last. Surely it would’ve been more sensible all round to leave these rot bags and try and meet someone they do love. Even at risk of not being able to have kids? I just think it’s a really selfish move to pop out a kid because you want one, knowing you’re intentionally bringing them into an unhappy situation. We should teach younger women this is not the way to go, it’s save a lot of heartache and divorce fees all round. And these are not cases of ‘sometime it just doesn’t work out’ they all knew in there heart of hearts it was not going to work out. Madness!

Isn’t why we must try to bring our girls up to be self supporting and ideally able to finance a family if the worst happens. I held off having children until I had a management promotion. My husband and I split and As he returned abroad I was able to support us all with no help from the government in the days when there was no childcare funding. Realise things are more difficult now, but I would never have risked having a child in poverty. I know not everyone camps do this, but at least we should aim for this for self preservation and for the children?

Also yeah. My parents thought they were great parents. They weren't

Well presumably by that logic you don't blame other women too and believe they should have chosen more wisely. Which is great.
Very few women chose to have children with completely unsuitable men. In the absence of perfection, they more typically tend to compromise and accept some undesirable traits. Maybe he drinks a bit more than they prefer. Maybe he can be a bit selfish, a bit idle, a bit of a workaholic, gives the eye to the odd woman in the street. But overall, he's a good guy, and we've all got our faults.
Then as time goes by these things can escalate into big problems. Ironically family life can be a trigger point, and before long he is highly unsuitable.
A woman who has set out her stall that an unsuitable man is her own doing, sneering at the inferior choices of others, may feel rather reluctant to acknowledge that and so she and her children may put up with him behind closed doors.
Given that that has never happened to you, and your husband has retained his excellence for 32 years, you have no relevent experience upon which to draw, and are therefore unqualified to dismiss that as nonsense.

Yet there are still many threads on mumsnet from women who say they are TTCing for a/another baby with their addict/waste of space/abusive partners.

Whereupon the advice is always to stop and get watertight contraception.

A surprisingly large amount of people tend to think that women are spoilt for choice when it comes to choosing a husband/father of their children. Maybe for the likes of Angelina Jolie et al, but the reality for ordinary women is different. Lots of women can’t be that choosy or they would miss out on relationships and having a family. It’s not to say have four kids with an unemployed thug with a criminal background and a history of dv but let’s be realistic; most women don’t have a long list of eligible gentlemen forming an orderly queue at their front door waiting patiently for their turn to be the chosen to be the father of miss Ordinary’s future children.

It's completely true. There are far more emotionally sorted, hardworking, committed women than there are men. Sometimes the choices are to either procreate with a loser, or just not procreate.
And there's nothing wrong with being a stable single parent family- my parents are still married and my dad's an abusive bully. If he'd fucked off and we kids had stayed with my mum, perhaps I'd have had the self esteem in my 20s to choose a decent man when they were still available, easier than arriving at a good place, emotionally, in my 40s to realise most available men in my age bracket are woeful rejects.

I grew up in a toxic home environment and more or less married my mother.
I knew tension, arguing, shouting, obedience, too much responsibility, you name it.

The abuse cane in spades after our second child.
We eventually divorced. I was in a neglectful sexless stressful abusive marriage without ever intending on it. I gave my mental health and sanity to protect the children, and eventually I had to end it.

I've little to no respect for him however the children love him and that's what matters.

I can say that the guilt I felt about saddling my children with their dad almost ended me.

Exactly @crackofdoom
My experience mirrors this.

In these cases "better" is almost always go it alone.

Exactly this! Most women I know who've had babies with less than ideal partners do so because they're in their 30s, the clock is ticking and they haven't met anyone else. I know women who've split up with their useless partners, tried to find someone else and failed. Then they've gone back to the useless exes because they really want children!! I also know women who split up with unsuitable men because they wanted a good man to start a family with and they never met one and ended up childless. I am definitely NOT saying women should settle for a useless man but it's simply a sad reality that some women just don't meet a decent man at the right time.

Light hearted, but I watched a nature documentary the other day that featured bald eagles. They pair for life, but every year, before the female will breed with the male, he has to prove his worth to her and being her food. She is obviously capable of hunting for herself, but raising a chick takes two, they both have to be able to provide food for the chick, so she tests him to see if he’s still up to the job. Made me think women could do with being a bit more like bald eagles!

Quite possibly the wisest comment ever on MN

Please explain which of my bills you are paying as a direct consequence of my ex not paying maintenance ?

I think there are also women who ignore the fact that their partner isn't keen & assume he will step up once the child arrives. Then he never does & they post on Mumsnet moaning about their useless DH.

Maybe they think a baby might be the “sticking plaster” to their relationship?

Having a baby to save a relationship hardly ever works.

In my own case once I had my DC I thankfully saw sense and ensured that there would be no more kids with my Ex. Having more kids would of made the situation way worse and it would of been much, much harder for me to get away from ex and provide for those kids.
I read threads from women with very young babies who are dating new partners and thinking of moving in with them or having another child and in my head I am like no way. Be on your own, find your worth and then worry about new partners so you don’t repeat the same mistakes. I was single for years before I entered another relationship.
My male cousin has a baby with a woman who has a two year old and a four year old. He can’t look after himself no mind be a family man. He is unreliable, always changing jobs, does drugs and then drives. She and her kids deserve way better and his own family think she should have stayed well clear of him. I just hope he grows up and steps up to being a dad and partner. I don’t know what has happened in her life to think that she doesn’t deserve better.
I think threads like this are so important and hopefully there are women who read threads like this and the mistakes of others help her make better choices.

We can judge women all we want but basically they have such a narrow window to ''achieve'' motherhood that I don't think shaming women who've have children with lazy or controlling (add as applicable) arseholes will ever work.

A more sensible approach would be to acknowledge that women are really up against it if they want to be mothers.

If women were all sensible then the birth rate would plummet and the government would be talking about that problem.

@hattie43 I agree with the other poster asking you which of her bills you're paying.

I'm a single parent and I'm not in receipt of any benefit, I just pay taxes, but a lot of families get FIS or working family payment as it's now called in my country but that's hidden. Nobody ever knows if a family is getting that benefit.

@Monoprix so true.

OK, I’ll call it a day. Each to their own, and I’ve learnt a bit from some of your comments why some people make this unfortunate choice. (Anyone who says it isn’t or wasn’t a choice, or suffered abuse etc, is really not who I was talking about anyway, so kind of irrelevant here.)

Whilst I can’t go back in time and tell my friends not to do it. If I do have my own kids or anyone asks me for advice (male or female). I will definitely try and in-still in them that they are worthy of love, respect, and friendship in a relationship. And tell them that whilst nobody has a crystal ball, holding out for a guy or girl you believe you can be happy with long term will likely serve you better than settling for anything less than that.

My friends dad once told her ‘if he doesn’t rock your world, he’s not the one’ and that is the message I will be spreading, from my ivory tower of course. Because I think believing you deserve a nice life is half the battle.

I’ll continue to support my friends, and never ask them why they chose the guys they always hated. That’s why I had to ask here.

Your friend will be ok though, if she's a strong person who would have been happy walking another path she will be strong and happy walking this path.

Having a child with a bit of a knob isn't the end of your life unless you let it be the end of your life. It doesn't mean you won't have a ''nice life''

There's a lot of projection going on. I've had it done to me. So much pity sent my way when my daughter is at a good university, I have a secure house, a secure job, savings, pension....

but it's nice to be able to feel wise by pitying somebody else and there is a bit of a need for somebody to fulfil that role.

Step up WOMEN who had a child with a man who is a bit lazy/controlling.

Some times I'm grateful that my x was properly a knob because if he'd just been a bit shit, a bit ordinary, I 'd still be there.

It was for the best that he was a proper arsehol.e

If it’s abuse it isn’t irrelevant

the woman might know he’s a bad person and doesn’t want to be tied to him with babies and children but she is vulnerable and being controlled so has less agency. Woman might have suffered abusive childhoods; have abandonment and self esteem issues which affect their understanding or subconsciously deflect the warning signs

you cannot base your views around two friends who you claim have willingly done this . Life is a lot more complex than that. It also involves men and this thread is been depressingly lacking in the scrutiny and relevance of their characteristics and participation

@FrankTheThunderbird

Please explain which of my bills you are paying as a direct consequence of my ex not paying maintenance?

A lot of single parents get tax credits, free school meals. Obviously not all. But sometimes it's almost as much in top ups as a full time salary. This may not be the case for you.

Even at risk of not being able to have kids

That's a huge risk and one many women are not prepared to take, esp as they get further into their fertility/child bearing window.

They'll usually just have them with whoever they're with, bird in the hand and all that.

They also often just think another man will be as bad or worse in the sans of different ways. Their behaviour is often dismissed as "men!".

I hear that constantly; men behaving like shit "och men, that's just men they're all like that ... " Etc.

This.

And unless someone is very adventurous and/or has a huge range of hobbies and interests and very wide circles of acquaintance and is v outgoing etc etc.... The pool from which they can meet a partner is often, even now, quite small.

Do most people still not end up in partnerships with people from their school or uni or local area?