Abortion is fine but euthanasia isn't??

[Mommabear20]

With all the discussion on abortion at the moment, and the clear view from the majority is people that they're a good thing, AIBU to wonder why we still don't allow for legal euthanasia of terminally ill people in this country (England)?

My personal view on abortion is that is a terrible practise that makes me terrible sad to think about and a resource I would never use, BUT that it should be legal for woman whose views differ to mine, to allow them to make their own decisions about their bodies and lives.

It baffles me then, to think that while we are fighting for woman's rights on this subject, that we aren't also fighting for the rights of every person who is or will suffer terribly as a result of terminal illnesses, not to mention the trauma for their families who have to watch them deteriorate in health knowing that it's only going to get worse and often times won't get to be there with them at the end.

Would you be in agreement to make euthanasia legal?

@HoneysuckleBeanstalk - I tested negative for the gene, yes, and it was an unspeakable relief as I already had young DC when we found out the disease was in my family.

My dad was barely existing towards the end. I honestly can't understand why people who weren't dying his death would fight so hard to keep him alive.

I agree in principal, the only worry I would have is that it might be abused, sick or elderly people pressured into to it for selfish or greedy reasons

Because suicide is linked more, usually, to mental health in otherwise young, healthy people who could have lived if they had help and treatment, completely out of the blue and resulting in trauma to their discovery by family or paramedics and just not ever knowing the reasons why or how much they could have helped. And euthanasia is linked more to physical health in older, unhealthy people who are in physical pain with every breath and in a way that isn't ever going to be treatable or have any dignity and could be done in a clinical setting with family knowledge. They are not the same at all and obviously it is more nuanced than that, but the broad brush strokes.

There are some worrying stories coming out of Canada where they have legalised euthanasia within a private/insurance based health system, but this is not a reason not to legalise euthanasia in the UK, but a reason to fight hard to keep the NHS.

I support the right to elective euthanasia, which would mean its my choice, and I can decide while I am still well.

That's really good news, what an additional burden it would be the carry the gene. Hopefully in the future they will come up with a cure for others.

A family friends dad died of Huntington's a few years ago. I didn't witness the illness directly but I know his final years were difficult. He couldn't swallow so had to be artificially fed, often taken to hospital when he did eat because he was desperate for a taste. He aspirated his food into his lungs. A very long death, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I think it's easy to theoretically disagree with something when the reality of certain illnesses isn't directly impacting.

I suppose I've been lucky, in that I've not had to consider the idea in my own life or family.

@pushingpoppies I disagree, I've been to many suicides as a paramedic and the reasons for suicide include mental health but also many are effectively self euthanasia.

For example of the 4 hangings I have been to

Elderly man who expressed in his note that he was 'short of breath and his legs had gone" and he didn't want to carry on any more.

John doe found hanging in woods - so no idea of reasons

Young female failed to escape abusive relation

Middle age man, suffered massive head injuries as a teenage driver recovered to discharge from hospital but very poor quality of life, unable to sustain work/relationships.

So from that small sample 50% would probably be considered reasonable grounds for medical euthanasia. So it's certainly not uncommon to come across.

In some countries you can be offered euthanasia on psychiatric grounds. As someone who has BPD that is terrifying. I have been suicidal many many times and will likely be suicidal many, many times in future, BPD carries the highest suicide risk, and yet I don't think I need to be euthanized (or at least not at the moment when I'm stable). I think I need better treatment and more accessible treatment. I agree with euthanasia in cases where the person is terminally ill, has no quality of life and no chance of a good quality of life but my fear is that if people can be killed for mental illness in other countries because their quality of life is lower, then where do they draw the line?

With abortions its generally done before the foetus is viable and anything later is for a specific medical reason. It isn't the same as euthanasia, that foetus has never lived, it is not a living person with conscious thought in the same way someone who's been born and lived is.

I am pro abortion for any woman who wants or needs it. I do worry that sometimes (very few) women are pressured into abortions they don't want and that is something that care needs to be taken on.

I am pro euthanasia for anyone who is mentally sound enough to make that decision. I even think that in some extreme cases other people should be able to decide euthanasia is the best course of action for someone who doesn't have mental capacity. I worry a lot of vulnerable people would have pressure put on them (i.e. you need looking after now, and the grandkids could really do with the house) to undergo it. The stakes for getting it wrong are a lot higher than with abortion.

I am pro mental health support to save suicidal peoples lives in the same way I'm pro treating physical illnesses. Mentally ill people aren't making careful rational decisions about their lives. Sadly there's very little support in this country.

Euthanasia should be legal. We treat humans appallingly when it comes to terminal illness etc....... animals would be put down, but we let humans linger on and suffer etc.... for no reason what so ever.

YABVU about both subjects.

There are also lots of choices and plans we can already put in place legally that most people are unaware of to potentially hasten our passing.

I have an advanced directive with a range of parameters and scenarios, whereby i would lack capacity and/or the ability to communicate, where I have stipulated in advanced the withdrawal/omission of certain medical treatments/procedures. Eg. If I ever develop dementia, once I've reached the point of no longer having mental capacity (for a sustain, specified period of time, rather than temporary) then they are not to give me antibiotics at all, that way I will succumb to infection much earlier on than many elderly people do.

My Dad had an aggressive brain tumour and in the end he declined a second course of antibiotics for a chest infection and due to his general poor state by this point he died from sepsis within 3 days of his decision.

Yes euthanasia and abortion should both be legal and available.

Both should be a free choice.

@EgonSpengler2020 A brave man.

When my mother (84) was in hospital with complications arising from an awful Campylobacter bacteria infection the docs took me to one side and told me she'd signed a DNR (no resuscitation) as she'd said that basically after 6 weeks in hospital struggling with this thing and fading fast she'd had enough and if the time comes then the time comes!

It was a hard thing to hear, but i respected her wishes of course.

The time never came. She pulled through. This was all about 2 years ago now. But she says she feels as if every day is borrowed time now. in a good way.

Well, to be fair lots of people are fighting for voluntary euthanasia to be made legal in this country.

The reason people are particularly vocal about abortion rights at the moment is because it is an existing right that is being taken away, which is a backward step in women’s rights. Whenever euthanasia is debated in Parliament or becomes a manifesto issue, or there is a criminal case against someone who assisted a suicide, you will definitely see a lot of discussion about it in the media and so on.

Personally I think abortion and voluntary euthanasia should both absolutely be legal.

I don’t actually think they are in any way comparable acts though. Euthanasia is about terminating the life of a consenting adult. Abortion is about stopping a life from starting in the first place - and it actually saves the lives of many women and girls.

False equivalence is a logical fallacy in which an equivalence is drawn between two subjects based on flawed or false reasoning. This fallacy is categorized as a fallacy of inconsistency. Colloquially, a false equivalence is often called "comparing apples and oranges."

I agree and I am glad you are recognising the similarities in the my body my choice point of view.

i believe it is a person’s absolute right to end their own life if terminal illness makes it unbearable to continue at any point and there should be safe ways to do this.

I have been personally effected by suicide and it is completely different and leaves trauma and unending questions and guilt for everyone left behind.

I face the prospect of genetic disease from both parents so I am having a ringside view of a long protracted death and I am not prepared to inflict this on myself or my family due to other peoples squeamishness surrounding death.

if it makes you uncomfortable please support charities that fund research into cures and treatments for the world’s worst ways to die and stop voting in political parties that cut social care budgets.

@ManateeFair - Well, to be fair lots of people are fighting for voluntary euthanasia to be made legal in this country.

The reason people are particularly vocal about abortion rights at the moment is because it is an existing right that is being taken away, which is a backward step in women’s rights.

Yes; imagine existing euthanasia rights being removed in certain countries now. Imagine racial equality rights being removed now. How backwards all this is!

I'm stunned that my life has spanned the 70s, 80s, 90s and the noughties i'm seeing women's rights in a developed country REMOVED in the 2020s 😰

I'm hoping this will be remembered as a scary backwards temporary blip.

Yep legalise it but legalise only in certain circumstances to avoid it being abused

A little blob of barely developed cells is so, soooo different to an actual living, breathing human.

i would like to see euthanasia legalised too but this isn’t the argument to have

To help settle these issues, I think we should have referendums on the following:

• Abortion (absolute right to choose v time limits) with only biological females allowed to vote.

• Euthanasia.

• Capital punishment .

I hasten to add I don’t think biological males should be permitted to vote in Parliamentary votes on abortion either as it isn’t an issue that can or does affect them in any way.

"My personal view on abortion is that is a terrible practise that makes me terrible sad to think about and a resource I would never use"

How ignorant
What if you have an ectopic pregnancy that could end up killing you. Or a mental health issue that forcee you to take medicine that would cause the baby to die etc. Of course you would terminate. Plus 928383 more reasons.

Why does abortion make you feel 'terrible sad'?

Yeah I think assisted suicide should be legal.

Exactly. The ignorance around abortion really does show lately.
Abortion is a necessity. Late term abortions are only done for medical need, and I support women having the choice at any time in her pregnancy.
I also think euthanasia should be legal. I do agree it should be tightly regulated, the Netherlands have a good policy around it.

Maybe because suicide isn't painless or dignified?

When my Dad stuck a hosepipe in his car exhaust and gassed himself to death, it wouldn't have been the pleasant, just going to sleep death that people think it is. And maybe the police, ambulance and dog walker who found him, wouldn't have the memory of finding him in that state.