Abortion is fine but euthanasia isn't??

[Mommabear20]

With all the discussion on abortion at the moment, and the clear view from the majority is people that they're a good thing, AIBU to wonder why we still don't allow for legal euthanasia of terminally ill people in this country (England)?

My personal view on abortion is that is a terrible practise that makes me terrible sad to think about and a resource I would never use, BUT that it should be legal for woman whose views differ to mine, to allow them to make their own decisions about their bodies and lives.

It baffles me then, to think that while we are fighting for woman's rights on this subject, that we aren't also fighting for the rights of every person who is or will suffer terribly as a result of terminal illnesses, not to mention the trauma for their families who have to watch them deteriorate in health knowing that it's only going to get worse and often times won't get to be there with them at the end.

Would you be in agreement to make euthanasia legal?

@CounsellorTroi

Thank you so much for that link. I did not realise it was possible.

If we can relieve dogs of their stress and distress at the end of life why can’t we do it for humans?

absolutely pro euthanasia and pro choice.

@ILoveAllRainbowsx

She wasn’t actually Ill. She’d expressed a wish to die when she was 50 and then at 60. I’m just not sure she was not suffering from mental health problems. Seems to me she had a lot of life left in her. I felt sorry for her children and her partner of 25 years who supported her but weren’t happy about it at all.

@SummerWinterSummerWinter my grandmother had a terminal physical condition and she was 82, but there are no age limits in the Netherlands. Nor should there be! Having an assisted suicide for a non-physical condition is not easy, but it has happened in a few cases. One was a man with an alcohol addiction who had been fighting his addiction for decades. There have also been women with anorexia who have chosen assisted suicide, again after decades of failed treatment. These cases raise the questions around how much suffering we can expect people to endure before they say it is enough. I have seen some posts in here blithely dismissing suicidal feeling as 'something that will pass with treatment' - but that is simply not always true, and we should not force people to endure decades of misery so that we can feel comfortable. I am opposed to excluding mental health from grounds for assisted suicide on that basis.

WIth dementia it is much, much more difficult and there is still discussion on what the law should be. At present, a person with dementia has to be deemed to have capacity at the point where the decision to go ahead is taken. My father fell into this trap - he chose not to go ahead when the option was presented to him, but by the time his dementia worsened (but he still had lucid periods), he was deemed not to have capacity any more. He knew he had made a mistake and it caused him immense pain.

There have also been cases where a doctor has stepped in illegally - these people have been prosecuted and sentenced.

@CounsellorTroi

But I want to die before I am ill. I am not suffering from a mental illness.

I have had the most wonderful life so far and I want to die on my terms, before I get dementia or another illness.

Thank you so much for the link. I really did not realise this was possible.

@CounsellorTroi

In the article, it says the following. This is exactly the reasons that I want to decide when I die as well.

Ms Pharaoh, from north London, said she did not want to become a burden to her children or be "blocking beds" and costing the NHS a "fortune".

I am pro choice, and I think euthanasia should be legal.

I think If anyone had ever witnessed someone dying, in distress, pain and scared without dignity, most with any empathy would also agree with euthanasia.

With the aging population and shortage of carers, I hope that euthanasia gets introduced. Many people suffer in their final months/years wishing for death, and without adequate carer support, providing that dignity and quality care is going to be hard.

I worked for 6 months on a catastrophic spinal/brain injury unit, some were catatonic, some only had movement of their eyes but had full brain function, there was one man who sat in his wheelchair all day every day for years screaming. I 100% believe they would all wish for death, and the staff and family if able, would facilitate that out of compassion.

@pointythings That must have been so difficult for your Dad to realise he'd made the wrong decision for him, and really hard for you to watch your Dad go through it.

I think your points about mental health and enduring suffering are very interesting - food for thought.

Euthanasia should be legal but very strict guidelines.

Here’s an article from the Guardian at the time of Gill Pharaoh’s death.

www.itv.com/news/2015-08-03/gill-paraoh-healthy-nurse-75-ends-life-at-swiss-suicide-clinic-because-she-did-not-want-to-become-hobbling-old-lady

if you accept the argument that old people are “a burden on society” it’s not a huge leap to applying that to other people such as disabled, homeless etc people.

Thanks, I've signed that petition

I've become a member of Dignity in Dying Scotland off the back of this thread. Signed up to a small monthly direct debit. Sadly you can't gift aid it as "what we're campaigning for is illegal so we cannot be a registered charity"

With the worry about some who would want it no longer being seen as able to consent surely a living will or such made with a doctor could be used. personally if I didn’t know who I was and who my children where I wouldn’t want to be kept alive. That is something pretty easy to test and write that a person wishes to end their life upon such a time that they no longer recognise their close loved ones, that they no longer wish to be kept alive if in a vegetive stage. Even if it’s something that has to be signed and checked year on year.

Alot more people are alive right now than would be if they had safe legal dignified ways to end their life. Although I guess life insurance payouts could be an issue?

@CounsellorTroi

No, I do not think you can extrapolate like that. I think most people would agree that it depends on age, not disability or homelessness.

But, when I am in my 80s and taking up a bed and and precious resources then I am a burden to society because we do not have an endless point of money. That is a fact. I would much rather that young people were given the resources.

I will have had my life by the time I am 80. It is now the turn of younger people and I don't want them to have to pay for me.

It baffles me then, to think that while we are fighting for woman's rights on this subject, that we aren't also fighting for the rights of every person who is or will suffer terribly as a result of terminal illnesses, not to mention the trauma for their families who have to watch them deteriorate in health knowing that it's only going to get worse and often times won't get to be there with them at the end.

Who is we?

Sounds like you think women need to campaign on every issue you consider to be related by principle just so they can avoid being accused of intellectual inconsistency.

I think the thread shows you most of us are very consistent but we're more concerned with protecting what we have right now so please stop being goady, it doesn't make you look as clever as you think it does.

Abortion should be legal and easily accessible to those who want it.

Euthanasia should be legal and easily accessible to those who want it.

My family was impacted by suicide, and I don't think that should come with the narrative it often does. In some circumstances it's entirely understandable and the saddest part is that the person felt that it was their only option.

I don't agree with life at any cost.

My friends mum is a doctor (mostly retired but went back to icu for the first COVID wave), has recently attended a course in the UK covering assisted dying, she thinks it will be legalised within the next 5 years.

I'm pro choice and pro euthanasia. Either you believe people have bodily autonomy or you'll be on Krugers team (to me).

Mind you, atm it's fucking impossible to even get a Dr's appt. And CERTAINLY impossible to get at any of the goodies like opiates or sleeping tablets. Can you imagine the paperwork involved in assisted dying? So most of us will die on the waiting list for it.

Personally, I wish I had become a vet or a pharmacist and I could sort the damn issue out myself.

I am pro euthanasia because I strongly believe it is in fact pro life and not pro death (I'm absolutely not a pro-lifer in terms of how the definition is used politically).

Many years ago when I was a new ambulance technician in my early 20s I went to a young lad, the same age as me who had attempted suicide and survived by pure luck not a lack of effort. He had Huntington's disease, he had grown up seeing various male members of his family die horrible, drawn out, young deaths and when he was diagnosed he started drinking heavily and then this escalated to suicide attempts, I can only assume he ultimately succeeded.

I sometimes wonder if he had had the option of euthanasia and therefore been able to dictate the point in his disease progression that he didn't want to be alive any longer, whether he would have been able to live an enjoy his 20s and 30s, rather than throwing the time he did have away.

God this is heartbreaking. My dad died of Huntington's, and had I inherited it, I certainly would've contemplated ending my life whilst I still had capacity. Anything rather than die that terrible death.

An old professor of mine at uni also had Huntington's. Very few people knew, most assumed he was just an alcoholic, which he also was - he drank to "mask" the physical symptoms of HD. He'd rather people believed he was a drunk. The drink killed him before HD did, but it was hardly a better, more dignified way to go. Assisted suicide would've been a far kinder option had it been available to him.

OP I don't think you get how different abortion and euthanasia are.

The whole point, the reason why the 'abortion is murder' line is bollocks, is that abortion doesn't kill an actual human being. It destroys a potential one. Nothing follows from that in respect to euthanasia, which concerns fully formed humans.

Euthanasia should be legal as personal decision between a person and their doctors. No doctor should be involved in the decision who stands to benefit financially directly or indirectly through them, their family or their friends inheriting as a beneficiary of the person being euthanised.

I would NOT exclude mental illness from euthanasia
That would be stigmatizing and dismissive of how serious a psychiatric illness can be.
Stop with this false belief that suicidal people all need a bit of love and help and support to get back on track.
Many do sure,
But for many it's not a "mental health issue" it's a full on Psychiatric illness and they can be as severe crippling de-humanising and awful as the worst physical illness.

@BeautyGoesToBenidorm I read this thread, thinking I don't agree with euthanasia or assisted dying. But then you hit the nail on the head. A disease like Huntington's, which robs you of everything. How can I disagree?

It sounds like you haven't inherited the gene? That must be such a relief for you.