Abortion is fine but euthanasia isn't??

[Mommabear20]

With all the discussion on abortion at the moment, and the clear view from the majority is people that they're a good thing, AIBU to wonder why we still don't allow for legal euthanasia of terminally ill people in this country (England)?

My personal view on abortion is that is a terrible practise that makes me terrible sad to think about and a resource I would never use, BUT that it should be legal for woman whose views differ to mine, to allow them to make their own decisions about their bodies and lives.

It baffles me then, to think that while we are fighting for woman's rights on this subject, that we aren't also fighting for the rights of every person who is or will suffer terribly as a result of terminal illnesses, not to mention the trauma for their families who have to watch them deteriorate in health knowing that it's only going to get worse and often times won't get to be there with them at the end.

Would you be in agreement to make euthanasia legal?

You are comparing two things which are not equivalent.

Abortion is the termination of a process (pregnancy) that could end in a human life, but is currently only a potential life. To be in favour of abortion is to prioritise the rights of an actual human over a potential human. Euthanasia is a process that ends an actual life and as such is a discussion about all of the legal and moral safeguards we have in place to protect actual human life and how and in what circumstances it should be acceptable to suspend those rules.

I don't think this is the gotcha you think, surely most people are in favour of euthanasia/assisted dying. More than are in favour of abortion probably.

The bullying
The willingness to let someone be neglected rather than support them
The chance to save money at a national level and grab inheritance at the person level
Euthanasia is a very difficult thing to support because I know how cruel many people are
But Extending life at all costs artificially is also wrong

Abortion - Equally for me not clear cut - I don't think abortion to the point of birth for any reasons is acceptable to me - once the baby becomes truely viable outside the mother to me it's a dodgy as euthanasia - rape /mothers health / external delaying tactics aside . Although I would be surprised today if any late abortion in the uk was outside of my personal moral setting

In all cases these are choices made in isolation - and they should not be

We don't have good homes for unwanted babies especially disabled babies

We don't have good support for older people either

Abortion and euthanasia to me are both examples of how society and medicine have failed putting people in the situation where they need to make such a choice

I work with people who have survived attempts to end their own lives. It is extremely rare to meet someone who is not glad they did not succeed.
For most people in this group, a desire to end their life is a symptom of a mental illness, that with support and treatment can be managed so the desire to die no longer exists.
People who would opt for euthanasia are generally coming from a different place, where the wish to die is actually a rational response to the circumstances they are in or facing, they know there is no end to it, no hope of treatment or improvement and that there are worse things than death.

Yes. My dad's best friend was a GP who was given a diagnosis which he knew would lead to a terrible death. He took his own life, but at an earlier stage than he would have done if he could depend on help and maintained absolute secrecy to protect his family.

His kids have to live with their dad having died alone. It's not right.

I do not consider the two issues to be the same or even that similar. And I don’t think most people think that abortion is a “good thing”, surely most see it as a necessary thing.

I was thinking this same thing. There are lots of people fighting for it. Very sick brave people have gone to the high court and lost many times.

I agree wholeheartedly re the differences. Although I am very conflicted on euthanasia, not for religious reasons but more due to my concerns around people feeling pressure to end their lives early so as not to be a ‘burden’ (based on previous professional experience and observation). I agree that it if it ever comes in, it would have to be incredibly tightly controlled.

If you feel strongly on this subject OP then contact your MP before the HOC debate on the 4th July
www.dignityindying.org.uk/news/assisted-dying-to-be-debated-in-commons-for-first-time-in-two-years-next-month-after-140k-sign-official-petition/

Yes, nobody should have to suffer if it is a permanent condition.

Absolutely agree with euthanasia. Would have to have safeguards to protect vulnerable who don't have loving families. But it theory I support it.

I am also pro choice. Not sure that one opinion has much to do with the other though. I don't consider abortion and euthanasia as similar.

Op I don't know, I think abortion, euthanasia and suicide are all aspects of the same issue-

Either life really really matters in all it's forms?

Although obviously closely linked - To me it’s not the same though because it’s about consent. You need to be a consenting adult to have euthanasia. This is fine in my eyes for long term illness to avoid suffering after counselling.

Choice abortion is also about a women’s consent to be a living life machine at great physical, emotional and financial costs. Abortion for medical reasons is about parents making a decision to avoid suffering and a life with little quality before it starts.

Suicide is unfortunately not always by consenting adults, but children as well 😢 In some cases Suicide is justified. I have heard of quite a few older people who organised the family round for final good byes and then happened to die that night in what many suspect is not a coincidence. In most cases though it is sadly mental illness. I am not saying mental illness causes any less suffering but you can’t consent if really mentally ill and mental illness is not guaranteed to be permanent.

So they are different to me.

Yes I would support it with very strict guidelines on mental health screening and therapy to ascertain that they were capable of uncoerced consent to the procedure.

Who are these people that always think suicide is a tragedy? Rational suicide is a well-documented occurance, and most people believe in it if they think about it for a second. Our old vet did it - the same man who euthanized our animals at the end of their lives the whole time I was growing up. He was very old, sick, could no longer work, his wife had long passed and his children were grown. He had the means and he was ready. That's not a tragedy. In my family there is hereditary major dementia. Now, I enjoy my life very much, and I hope to enjoy it for as long as possible. But. I've seen the end stages of major dementia, which most people have absolutely no idea about, unless they've seen it. Keeping people alive in that state is a literal horror show and a tragedy. If and when I get the diagnosis, hopefully well past the age of 70, I fully believe that euthanasia will be legal. If it isn't, I'm going to do whatever the fuck I want for three years and then end my life. It's not sad. I'm not sad. Again, I love my life, and that's why it categorically will not be ending the way my grandmother's did.

Completely agree with everything yoy have said OP. The only thing i will add is that it is sad just how accepted and normalised abortion seems to have become - women need to start taking more responsibility and not getting themselves in the sotuation of pregnancy if they do not want a child. Yes contraception isnt 100% effective but it is certainly more effective than abortion rates

Sometimes death is a cruel business. It can be long, and painful, and shit. I am all for body autonomy and I am the one who decides what happens to my body and when...so if I want to die I should be allowed to do it with or without the help of another person. But if another person has to be involved, I don't want them to go to prison for it.

If a euthanasia law were to be introduced it would have to be very clear on the where and when and why.

Bills for euthanasia get introduced to the HoP on occasion but the MPs keep voting them down. The Humanist UK group report on the issue regularly.

What about men taking responsibility for not getting women pregnant?

I’m more in favour of euthanasia tbh.

Whilst I wouldn’t criminalise abortion in all circumstances, after a certain period of gestation I think the foetus has rights, especially if it’s reached the stage where it would be capable of independent life if removed from the mother’s body.

With Euthanasia, the person receiving it has a choice.

The late term foetus that is being aborted when a wanted premature birth of the same gestation is being saved has no choice.

Suicide is not illegal. But thoughts and things that cause people to be suicidal quite often pass with time and help. If you have terminal cancer all you do is prolonging life. Some people want to have that bit extra time, some people don't.

I think they're apples and oranges. For me with abortion I'm pro life and pro choice, i think the issue is when life begins. I believe it begins at conception but I appreciate that it's my choice to believe that. No one really knows I suppose so that's down to beliefs and I don't think you can legislate bringing beliefs rather than facts.

Euthanasia on the other hand has to do with actual quantifiable life. Zero ambiguity about life. It's the question of quality of life. From a bodily autonomy point of view they're both comparable. But you should be comparing the woman not the foetus.

It looks as though we are heading that way. But it must allow for people with dementia to be included. Of all the horrible ways to die, this is probably the most feared by most people. To say a dementia sufferer hasn't got capacity to take the decision means the legislation must be carefully worded.

Abortion is a necessity and I’m very much in favour of euthanasia.

What’s your problem?

if I follow in my parents footstep- both of which died from cancer I would very much like to be able to end my own suffering as soon as possible.

my dad was 3 months from diagnosis to death- 2 rounds of radiotherapy and a third offered which he refused- he was told he was terminal. He couldn’t be touched because it hurt, he couldn’t eat or drink and he went from being 17+stone to less than 6.

my mum wasn’t officially diagnosed, she was discharged with suspected lung cancer and in 29days from her being admitted to hospital she passed- she in fact had liver cancer that had spread to the lungs.

I have a living will that states in the event of terminal cancer I am not to be given any type of life prolonging treatment, that my only wish is to have medication that makes the process as least painful as possible. I would fill support euthanasia for myself in these circumstances and for those around me- I don’t want them to remember me sick- I want to be remembered for who I am now.

I do think we should have legal and safe euthanasia as a choice open to those with conditions such as motor neurone disease, painful debilitating cancers etc. directed by the individuals themselves, not on the say so of others, and tightly regulated.

It's a dangerous equivalence to draw.
Abortion is about a woman's right to bodily autonomy. I don't think abortion is a normalised form of birth control and the vast majority of women who are in this position do think very carefully about it. It shouldn't be stigmatised either..
The similarity is regarding personal autonomy. Informed impartial consent is harder to be clear on with euthenasia.
I think that birth control, education and good public services do more to reduce unwanted pregnancies than restricting access to abortion.
Death is an inevitable part of life. It isn't always peaceful and pain free, but again, access to appropriate health care and pain relief is essential to make it humane.