To tell colleagues what happened with boss? Am I allowed to say if I’m still employed?

[SofieM0]

Grievance at work partially upheld. Advised (by friends, peers, other HR colleagues) not to appeal as it’s basically end of my career, outcome unlikely to change and I’d have to resign anyway.
Grievance against boss so he definitely has influence. It was a drunken verbal and physical attack, witnessed by many. I can’t stay in the job. Feel let down by company not to mention the working relationship is untenable for me.
AIBU to tell colleagues (inc other female direct reports to him) why I’m leaving, am I even allowed to whilst I’m still in employment? What about new employers, can I tell them the truth whilst I job search?
I’ve asked my HR but they’ve said they can’t discuss that until the grievance is formally closed (believe pushing me to not appeal).

Good luck OP x

...on top of all this is a major question for you...?

Do you want to exit or do you want to stay?
The answer will also determine the best approach for you personally...
Lots of good advice has come through but the answer to this question might also help carve out the best route for you to take ...

@Betty65 I had no plans or thoughts on leaving before this. I love my job and took the less senior role to get back to doing what I loved. It’s also very niche and I have carved out a great spot for myself and have an excellent reputation. I will be gutted to leave but I can’t stay now. There’s no outcome here, at the minute. If he got moved (at the very least) I’d consider staying but also feel a bit let down by the company. Also I’m active in the womens leadership groups at work and I can’t promote that anymore. It’s just sad.

and for those that asked, I do have legal cover on my home insurance.

@Redannie118 With most unions you have to be a member for at least a month before they are obliged to help. They also cannot help in a case that has already been started if you weren’t a member at the time.

I know I’m a bit late as you have had a lot of good advice.

1. HR etc. are praying you don’t appeal. You now have a plan to appeal and how to get the help you need. They are being very naughty telling you not to appeal, it’s your right. If someone try’s to say don’t appeal, respond with so should I just lodge an ET1.
2. when you get advice ask about lodging an ET1 - that will worry HR.
3. If they invite you to a Without Prejudice meeting this is where they will discuss a compromise agreement e.g. you leave quietly and we will pay you x. Make sure you take someone with you to take notes. Your employer has to pay your legal fees if you go down this route.
4. As part of the appeal, advise that the manager must be moved as grievance partly upheld. You are the victim so he should be moved.
5. Do not tell anyone/potential employers whilst you are employed as this could see you disciplined.

Good luck and sorry you have had to go through this.

How awful. All the best for today.

Can you tell potential employers? I have no idea about the legalities of your case.

should you tell potential employers? No. You should not. If you need income you need to consider how you market yourself. Just knowing that you filed a grievance against a former employer, no matter how justified, can make a potential employer skittish about hiring. Add on the layer that it was over a matter of personal behavior and people get even more scared. It doesn’t matter that it isn’t fair for you to be judged negatively for using the proper process when your workplace superior did something egregiously wrong. They now know you are someone who will stand up for yourself. That should be seen as an asset, but it’s human nature that it actually makes potential bosses nervous.

You’ve had very good advice here.

good luck- sounds very difficult but the manager should not be allowed to get away with this

No advice but having RTFT wanted to send you a HH. Glad you have good advice and I'm disgusted at how you have been treated

This is appalling. Did the incidents happen during work time or work sanctioned events? Not that it should make a difference but it probably does. I’d also want to understand whether their behaviour in this would contribute to constructive dismissal. The law is very specific and relates to their breach of your employment contract but given the element of sex discrimination here, even openly in the letter, then you might have a case. Ultimately it’s legal advice that is needed.

in your shoes I don’t think I could stay, so effort needs to be on getting an appropriate settlement and marketing yourself to a competitor. Fwiw, I hired someone last year who I know through the grapevine had had some issues with their boss and were currently on long term sick (this wasn’t formally disclosed to me at all by them, I just knew). I knew that my team in my organisation would be a good place for them and it has been so far. I hope they are happy, they seem to be, and I really do value them.

He said “memories are hazy” of course he’s hazy he was drunk! Definitely appeal and pay for an hours advice for a solicitor. You need an employment solicitor. At least a letter saying you intend to involve the police and pursue a criminal complaint unless he is dealt with. Could you force them to move you to another dept. It’s not ok that you have to leave and no your career is not over at 38.

You can discuss what you like with whoever you like your company cannot stop you, I'd tell everyone including the police x

If you do reach a compromise agreement, it's worth looking at this organisation that was set up to help victims understand non disclosure agreements:
https://cantbuymysilence.com

First off get your appeal lodged, secondly don't say a word until this is over ( nothing to be gained at all and risks the appeal(, thirdly start looking asap for another job. Wrong but you need to move on.

See how the appeal goes and if necessary follow the constructive dismissal route.
Follow the process, but really don't start talking about it to others.

Lodge the appeal and be specific about what you’d like to happen, eg if he’s not being sacked that you do not have to report to this person anymore.

You have insurance, so seek legal advice.

Pursuing a grievance or even a tribunal claim doesn’t mean ‘the end of your career’ - don’t think thinking like that is helpful.

Resigning would be taking on a huge personal risk. It’d be at least equally likely to negatively affect your career as pursuing a grievance or legal case through the appropriate channels, whilst remaining in the job or staying while you apply elsewhere.

It wouldn’t be sensible to discuss grievances with your past employers with potential new employers. unfortunately, recruiters won’t have much information and will often regard it as a ‘red flag’ about you.

What would your goal(s) be of discussing what happened and your thoughts and feelings about your employer’s handling of it with your current colleagues?

My husband used our home insurance legal to pursue an unfair dismissal claim (redundancy) - they provided full representation at tribunal hearing but it was settled outside on the day in his favour.

One reason not to discuss it widely while the grievance, appeal or case is active is that this could be seen as trying to influence the witness statements or outcome. A bit like reporting restrictions ahead of a trial.

I am not a lawyer but my impression from what you have said here is that this most certainly is not the end of your career, you have plenty of potential with competitor employers in your industry and you do not need to fear for the future. Do not sign a non disclosure agreement or take a settlement that is conditional on keeping quiet. It is never a crime to tell the truth, it can only ever be a civil and contractual matter. You are currently obliged to "not bring the company into disrepute" due to your employment contract but the truth is that they are a bunch of bastards who are taking the side of a powerful senior man who attacked a junior female, it was witnessed and upheld and yet they didn't sack him. These are facts and you will be totally free to share them once you have left their employment if you don't sign any agreement otherwise.

I think you should be applying for jobs with competitors. On paper application forms just put "career development" as your reason for leaving but if they aak you in interview for anything that you can't honestly answer without referring to this situation you can honestly say "I'm afraid I can't give any more details at the moment as I am under contractual obligation not to bring my current employers into disrepute. Can we focus on the positive ways I willbe able to make a difference for (new company name) and leave that subject alone for now?"

Once you have a new job you will be free to share with others only the facts that have been established. That certain incidents happened and were witnessed and admitted and yet he wasn't sacked. That other events which you alleged were not upheld because they weren't witnessed. It would be inappropriate to spread information that goes beyond these proven facts (including the fact that your additional allegations weren't upheld due to being unwitnessed)

Non disclosure agreements really piss me off. It shouldn't be possible to buy people's silence.

It is not the end of your career. That is scaremongering.
Other companies who value their staff will take you if you are a good worker, esp if direct competitor.

I would apply for another job and appeal simultaneously. Stay strong and don't bow down to this bullshit.

I cannot believe that in this day and age you are being hushed up to 'protect the company' the man.

Well, I can but I just wish it wasn't happening to you.

Employment lawyer here. I usually act for companies.

1. Contact the police even if it's not take further. It will scare them into settling or taking it more seriously.
2. Was this a work function/related to work? If so your employer is on the hook (vicariously liable) for the behaviour.
3. Assaulting a woman in circumstances where you wouldn't assault a man is likely direct sex discrimination (unfavourable treatment related to your sex). You have 3 months from the act complained of to raise a claim unless you've got a decent reason for being late.
4. If your employer refuses to move the guy or discipline him or accept the 2 unwitnessed incidents I don't personally see how you can still work there. You could resign (with or without notice) and claim constructive unfair dismissal.
5. It sounds like you'll be in demand and able to get a new job easily. Compensation for unfair dismissal is made up of a 'basic' award of about 1k in your case and compensation to cover your loss of earnings until you get a new job at the same rate of pay or more. For you this element might be zero if you find new employment immediately.
6. Compensation for sex discrimination overlaps with 5, but includes an addition element for 'injury to feelings'. This falls in a range of 1k to about 40k. It's v hard to guess what you'd get if you won but I'd estimate about 10k.
7. The assault is basically in the public domain and I don't buy that they have power over you to keep this confidential. To disclose it would not be you bringing the company into disrepute. HE bought the company into disrepute! The confidentiality is really your bargaining tool if you wanted a settlement agreement - they will pay for your silence. Personally I'd tell everyone I could now before you bind yourself but that's not professional advice!
8. If you want a settlement agreement it's best not to get a new job first as you can argue you'll be out of work for ages and say you need more compensation. Settlement agreements often contain a clause saying you haven't been offered or accepted a new job. That's because if you have then, as per point 5 above, you wouldn't be due much compensation if you sued.
9. Finally, you don't need to bring a claim or enter into a settlement agreement if you don't want! Bringing a claim is v stressful and settling will silence you. You could just get a new job and tell the world what a dick he was and how appallingly your grievance was handled. I don't personally subscribe to not rocking the boat out of fear. I'd want my new employer to be a place where they don't think badly of you for discussing such an important matter. That might be idealistic but it's what I'd aim for in a new employer.

I'll probably think of more but good luck and we'll done for remembering to go for legal insurance on your house insurance!

Also I’m active in the womens leadership groups at work and I can’t promote that anymore

That'll probably wind them up as well
It's obviously a brilliant thing to be involved in, but to mentalities like this I can practically guarantee that it'll be seen as "a troublemaking, entitled woman who can't take a joke"

The DSAR is great advice - my brother put one in when he was pursuing a grievance (made “redundant” so his boss’s boss could bring his new girlfriend over from another company). He found loads of really incriminating messages (stuff like “oh it sounds like he’s got legal advice, we need to go back and do the paperwork we should have done before making him redundant to demonstrate how we chose to eliminate his post”).

Even the stuff not directly related to the redundancy was helpful (his boss’s boss calling him “a cunt” to HR etc once they knew he was fighting the redundancy just demonstrated that they weren’t following due process). Big multinational advertising firm, so unfortunately being a household name doesn’t mean you follow the law or behave with any professionalism.

You can say what you want unless you've signed a non disclosure agreement. I would seek legal advice though if I were you though because it sounds like your work are screwing you over.